ATI to launch Radeon 9500 and 9700 on the 18th

[martrox]

Everything else being equal (which it isn't) remember, the 9500 is DX9 compatable, vs. TI4200 being DX8. If the retail price is $199.00 (which it is!)for the 128 meg DX8 TI4200 vs, the 64 meg DX9 9500..... just where is ATI's pricing out of wack? If you want to compare the $169.00 64 meg DX8 TI4200 vs. the $199.00 64 meg DX9 R9500....are the extra features on the DX9 (including usable AF & AA!) card worth the extra $30.00? Also, remember that the retail pricing has little to do with the discounting..... The R9700 has come down in price MUCH quicker than any of the GF4TI's have. I can easily see the 64 meg R9500's being just a few dollars more than the 64 meg 4200's in a couple of months.....

And I have little doubt that the R9500 with AF & AA on will slay any TI4200.......

 

[Evildeus]

Also, remember that the retail pricing has little to do with the discounting..... The R9700 has come down in price MUCH quicker than any of the GF4TI's have.

Yeah, that's because Nvidia is the leader and Ati the challenger on the market. To change that, Ati needs to have the performance crown and decrease its prices quicker than Nvidia. If Ati becomes the leader of this market, it will be otherwise

That said, i don't think Nvidia can afford Ati's threats for long, so i think that the GF4ti line will also see its prices go down... [/b]

 

[martrox]

Also, remember that the retail pricing has little to do with the discounting..... The R9700 has come down in price MUCH quicker than any of the GF4TI's have.

Yeah, that's because Nvidia is the leader and Ati the challenger on the market. To change that, Ati needs to have the performance crown and decrease its prices quicker than Nvidia. If Ati becomes the leader of this market, it will be otherwise

That said, i don't think Nvidia can afford Ati's threats for long, so i think that the GF4ti line will also see its prices go down... [/b]

Don't you think you are reaching a bit here? ATI is now the performance leader, and can justify their prices. And, having already sold more than 1 million R9700's tells you just how popular the 9700 is. It's nVidia that has to cut prices to respond to ATI. And IF ATI can cut prices to keep the pressure on, well, that great for all of us! And, when you can get a R9700 for $313.00 delivered here in the states, thats a great deal, to say the least!

 

[Evildeus]

Don't you think you are reaching a bit here? ATI is now the performance leader, and can justify their prices. And, having already sold more than 1 million R9700's tells you just how popular the 9700 is. It's nVidia that has to cut prices to respond to ATI. And IF ATI can cut prices to keep the pressure on, well, that great for all of us! And, when you can get a R9700 for $313.00 delivered here in the states, thats a great deal, to say the least!

I'm not saing that the 9700 is not the best card available right now, neither that its price is not competitive, but i'm saying that if ATI was the leader the price would have stick higher much longer.
ATI needs to become the leader, and pushing its price down with the avantage of time (against the NV30) give to ATI a good opportunity. I don't see where your facts contradict my reasonning

 

[jandar]

Funny way of thinking considering Ati DIDNT lower prices on the Radeon 9700. It still has a 399.99$ MSRP.
http://mirror.ati.com/shopati/pricespcusa.html

its the stores both retail and online doing the price cuts.

 

[sabeehali]

Don't forget HyperZ 3

I think entropy here is forgetting the fact that the reason for GF4's better performance is not only the 2nd vertex shader but also better memory handling. The 9500 has a better cross bar memory controller and it employs early z detection and better z compression algorithms.

I think if 9000 pro can show such cometitive performance with 8500 while being essentially crippled in half due to a few optimizations (which btw do not include memory/hyperz etc) the 9500, should in my opinion be better than gf4 Ti4200 without a doubt.

 

[Sabastian]

Funny way of thinking considering Ati DIDNT lower prices on the Radeon 9700. It still has a 399.99$ MSRP.
http://mirror.ati.com/shopati/pricespcusa.html

its the stores both retail and online doing the price cuts.

LOL, that is ATIs suggested retail price. That doesn't mean that ATIs third parties can't sell them at a lower price. ATi has put itself at a competitive disadvantage with its own third party sellers. Looking here @ newegg you can get one for as low as $320.... http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=radeon+9700

 

[noko]

ATI is about to wipe the Nvidia whole line of cards into oblivion. The GF4 MX is outdone by the Radeon9000 which is cheaper, faster and more advance. The Radeon 9500 should compete well with the Ti4200, is more advance and under high quality gaming conditions will probably beat the Ti4200 hands down. The Radeon 9500pro should also compete well with Nvidia's best at a lower price. The Radeon 9700 will just drive the Ti4600 into the sub $200 range (doesn't sound like to much profit will come from Nvidia's upper cards). The Radeon 9700 pro will be the clear leader throughout the rest of the year into the next. By years end from top to bottom ATI will have the superior line up is my prediction. ATI intentions is maybe to drive the price down so low to obtain market share over Nvidia making it very difficult to impossible for any Nvidia card manufacturers to make any money. Unless Nvidia has some working silicon of the NV30 that performs somewhat expected in the near future I just see Nvidia taking a beating before this year is over.

ATI has just out maneuvered Nvidia in virtually every front except maybe the Athlon Chipset nForce2 which Nvidia should do well if the price is right.

 

[John Reynolds]

ATI has just out maneuvered Nvidia in virtually every front except maybe the Athlon Chipset nForce2 which Nvidia should do well if the price is right.

And the problem there for Nvidia is that AMD is taking a beating right now and they don't have a P4 license.

 

[jandar]

Funny way of thinking considering Ati DIDNT lower prices on the Radeon 9700. It still has a 399.99$ MSRP.
http://mirror.ati.com/shopati/pricespcusa.html

its the stores both retail and online doing the price cuts.

LOL, that is ATIs suggested retail price. That doesn't mean that ATIs third parties can't sell them at a lower price. ATi has put itself at a competitive disadvantage with its own third party sellers. Looking here @ newegg you can get one for as low as $320.... http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=radeon+9700

read again:
its the stores both retail and online doing the price cuts.

ITs NOT Ati making price cuts as I was pointing out.

 

[Sabastian]

read again:
its the stores both retail and online doing the price cuts.

ITs NOT Ati making price cuts as I was pointing out.

Hrm on that same link I provided from newegg now that I actually look at all the offerings I see that there is in fact an ATi Radeon 9700 Pro for sale for $345.. Seems ATi charges extra for buying from their own site.. So I guess you should have actually looked at the link I provided as it appears that ATi IS making price cuts. Just sayin.

ATI RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB TV/DVI 8X AGP RETAILRADEONâ„¢ 9700 PRO = $345..... http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=ATI+RADEON+9700+PRO[/url]

 

[Sabastian]

Here is some scopage..... no "PRO" version yet.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1034686256

"Gigabyte Unveils RADEON 9500. No RADEON 9500 PRO Yet
Posted 10/15/02 at 8:50 am by Anton

Gigabyte Technology today unveiled the RADEON 9500 based graphics card called MAYA II GV-R9500. The novelty is targeted on the market of mainstream graphics adapters for gamers and computer enthusiasts.

RADEON 9500 graphics processor is the derivative from the RADEON 9700 VPU. It supports AGP 8x, DirectX 9.0, provides four geometry engines, dual 400MHz RAMDACs, HyperZ-III, TrueForm 2.0 and so on. In order to lower the costs of their mainstream solutions, ATI decided to use 128-bit memory bus for the RADEON 9500 based graphics cards. RADEON 9500 features four rendering pipelines with one TMU per each.

MAYA II GV-R9500 graphics card is clocked at 275/550MHz for core/memory, equipped with 64MB of 3.6ns DDR SDRAM (4Mx16) memory, D-Sub, DVI-I and TV-Out connectors. Among the software bundle, besides the V-Tuner and other proprietary software from Gigabyte, I should mention Power DVD XP player and up to four various games, according to the company.

The price and availability timeframe are not declared.

As stated by our sources, the RADEON 9500 PRO (see this news-story for the details and specifications) launch is postponed a bit. They said that the novelty will be announced in less than two weeks, or, maybe, even sooner."

 

[Nagorak]

Where is the 9700 non-pro?

 

[Sabastian]

Where is the 9700 non-pro?

Yeah I am thinking ATI will milk as much as possible out of the lower performing 9XXX series with 128 interface cards before introducing a non pro version of the Radeon 9700 but that does kind of make you wonder about the rumored 9500 pro. At this point there doesn't seem to be much incentive to introduce other 256 interfaced cards at all. I mean all they would do is lose their margins that they are getting on the expensive Radeon 9700 pro.

 

[BRiT]

Instead of going in the same direction, I'll head the other way: Where is the 10000?

I don't want lower performing hardware [ATI-9700-nonpro] to be cheaper, I want the higher performing hardware [ATI-9700pro] to be cheaper.

--|BRiT|

 

[Sabastian]

I don't know how reliable these are but from the looks of this it appears that Entropy was correct about the non-pro Radeon 9500.

EDIT: But the pro version beats the Geforce 4 Ti 4600.. which is interesting. This ought to be putting some price pressure on the Geforce 4 Ti 4600 even further.

 

[Nagorak]

Why are there two colors for the R9700 and R9700 Pro? If you look at it, the card line-up scales pretty well. Although the non-pro turns out being slightly slower than the Ti4200 (practically the same speed, really). Honestly even the 9500 Pro looks good to me, but I'd prefer the non-pro 9700 (just cannot justify the price of the 9700 Pro like a lot of people out there).

 

[Joe DeFuria]

That's about what I would expect to see in terms of raw, non AA / non Aniso performance. (9500 non-pro Vs. GeForce4 ti 42/4600).

Now, I also expect the 9500 non-pro to almost always be faster than the 4200 with AA, and definitiely with Aniso. I also expect the 9500 to beat the 4600 "more often than it loses" in those cases...though I expect the 9500 and 4600 to basically be performance competitive.

 

[demalion]

386 3dmark points means the 9500 isn't competitive with the GF4 Ti4200, even ignoring what happens when aniso and FSAA are turned on!?

So I guess that means the GF4 Ti4600 is completely destroyed by the 9500 Pro by their relative scores?

Note that I 1) don't have confidence in these graphs 2) don't assign 3dmark total scores much importance in regards to comparison anymore 3) wouldn't call these differences definitive even if I did.

 

[Pete]

Wake me when we get some AA/aniso benches and IQ comparisons.