Atari's MIRAI console - based on ST..or SNK NeoGeo ?
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
- Start date
Vadi said:Stunt Race FX had the SuperFX chip. (Super Mario Kart had it aswell, for copy protection.)
edit:
I heard that Super Mario Kart had th SuperFX but that's wrong.
Super Mario Kart had DSP-1. DSP1,2,3, and 4 were all actually the same chip just with different internal ROM.
Guden Oden said:
I think Stunt Race FX was still FX1. SuperFX is the same chip as the SNES main CPU (65C816) just a higher clock. SuperFX2 is double the clock of FX1(IIRC).
If you load the games in the newest versions of ZSNES it tells you what special chips the cart has, but it doesn't differentiate FX1/2.
Blazkowicz
Legend
no, super FX isn't a 65816, it's a custom RISC CPU. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperFX
as for donkey kong country I thought there was a chip for real time decompression of graphics?
as for donkey kong country I thought there was a chip for real time decompression of graphics?
Wowza, this has to win the award for oldest ever threat reappearance!
Don't want to dis wikipedia, but that probably isn't correct. Reznor is either a game dev, or at the very least QUITE knowledgeable about retro emulation stuff... So I'd trust his word above recycled PR from a wiki page.Blazkowicz_ said:
Besides, I've heard from other sources the SFX uses the same instruction set as the main CPU, so it wouldn't surprise me if the two indeed were the one and same.
Nope, there wasn't any extra chips in any of those.
Mario RPG did have a chip for that though, not sure how many (if any) other titles used it.
I've read somewhere that the SFX was in fact a modified ARM core, that would explain the similarity in instruction set. Back then, the basic ARM core was still around 30.000 transistors, so that would be pretty easy and cheap to put in a cartridge.Guden Oden said:
My ultimate dream console from that era would have a ARM 2 CPU, some kind of more or less dedicated geometry transformation hardware, like the what Intel did with the i860 or like Jim Clark's Geometry transformation engine. Also a video chip by Jay Miner and last but not least a sound chip by Bob Yannes.
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Didn't Yannes do the SID chip?
I think the Sony-designed chipset in the SNES probably was the pinnacle of sound generation of all time in consoles. It was advanced enough to do some pretty groovy music and excellent SFX, and while consoles after it did gain a lot more waveform memory and hardware voices, they also started cheating by streaming premixed music from disc (and later, system memory). If I was to pick a setup for a portable console, I'd want the SNES SPU/DSP updated to 16+ voices, more DSP oomph along with updated compression, filters, interpolation, and say half a meg of RAM attached rather than a mere 64K. Today, all of that could easily fit on a single, quite small chip.
For a stationary system, I'd probably want a mini-cell. Say, stripped PPU with 128k cache and 4 cost-reduced SPUs with fewer execution units and 128k local store each connected to 16MB XDR. Cell clocked at 1GHz.
I think the Sony-designed chipset in the SNES probably was the pinnacle of sound generation of all time in consoles. It was advanced enough to do some pretty groovy music and excellent SFX, and while consoles after it did gain a lot more waveform memory and hardware voices, they also started cheating by streaming premixed music from disc (and later, system memory). If I was to pick a setup for a portable console, I'd want the SNES SPU/DSP updated to 16+ voices, more DSP oomph along with updated compression, filters, interpolation, and say half a meg of RAM attached rather than a mere 64K. Today, all of that could easily fit on a single, quite small chip.
For a stationary system, I'd probably want a mini-cell. Say, stripped PPU with 128k cache and 4 cost-reduced SPUs with fewer execution units and 128k local store each connected to 16MB XDR. Cell clocked at 1GHz.
He did, and he also founded Ensoniq, that made the seminal Mirage and ESQ-1 synths. The basic technology of which, later would become the Apple IIGS sound hardware. The GS probably has the best soundchip of any consumer machine at release ever. Still respectable, with 32 voices of wavetable or sampled sound.Guden Oden said:
Actually I much prefer the Mega Drives sound (or analog synth sound from that time in general) any day. Take a listen to, for example some of the Castlevania games on the two consoles.
IMO the MD wins hand down, when it comes to sound. The SNES has a sort of cheap "my first sampler" quality to it's sound, which can be charming sometimes, but rarely isn't.
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Nah. If those are the parameters, I'd say NForce/Xbox soundstorm has it beat.Squeak said:
Not that hard though because it's what, 12-15 years more recent? The crappy YM chip in the megadrive is pure garbage. Sorry, but it is. They had the same shit in the Atari ST, and it was shit back then too. And I don't even think it's real analog either by the way.
Maybe if you listen to it through your monophonic TV speaker. THEN I might understand why the stoneage tech YM device might sound better to you...
If you wanna slam sample quality on the SNES, gods, just listen to what samples sound like through a YM chip. It's like if you made an LP record out of a stone slab and played it back using a bear tooth or something for chrissakes. It's all scratchy and mangled and stuff... I can't for my life understand you man!
It's digital in its purest form! I do have a soft spot for FM synthesis, but in the more advanced form seen in for example the YM2151. Many of the best game tunes ever are written for that chip, with the classic AM2 80s sound as the most iconic examples; Space Harrier, Outrun, Power Drift etc. all used it. Actually I think Yamaha DX100 used that very chip too, and that's one of my all time favoutite synthesizers.. DX7 with a ghetto twist - yes please.Guden Oden said:
I don't think there's any examples analogue sound circuitry ever used for games except for the filter on the SID chip.
xbox sound wasn't that fantastic at release, sure it had a lot of channels but they needed CPU support to really be used for anything. The DOC in the GS was basically a full semi professional synth (at the time, mind).Guden Oden said:Nah. If those are the parameters, I'd say NForce/Xbox soundstorm has it beat.
Oops
. You are correct about the analog part. I somehow mixed up analog and FM synth in my head (maybe the late hour). What i meant to say was that I prefer synthesised sound over canned samples (from that period and that class of hardware) whether it's analog og digital (I wasn't completely wrong about the MD sound being, at least partly, analog since it has the old 4 voice SMS chip in there too).Download these plugins for Winamp VGM plugin SNES Amp
and take a listen to some of the Castlevania music on here (MD) and here (SNES)
Then tell me again the MD music isn't better sounding.
Why should that make a difference? Whether it's mono or stereo doesn't have any noticeable impact in the sound quality (at least not with such simple hardware (the MD actually had a direct stereo out jack from the console)).Maybe if you listen to it through your monophonic TV speaker. THEN I might understand why the stoneage tech YM device might sound better to you...
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It's better. It sounds more energetic and dynamic. The SNES has more of a flat "looping sample on and off" sound to it, even in those late tracks.Reznor007 said:
The SNES had some superp tunes, let there be no doubt about that, but that IMO had more to do with good composers than great hardware (Star Fox, SMW and LoZaLttP are my personal favourites).
Listen to the Sonic soundtracks for further evidence of how great the Yamaha YM2612 can sound in the right hands.
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Aahhahahah, hahhaahhah!Squeak said:
(Night Elf /laugh.)This is clearly f-boy drivel, no way a cheapass FM synth that originates in the early 1980s beats a real sample-based synth chip. It can't properly imitate real instruments no matter HOW hard a composer tries. It can only squeak and squawk and buzz, and in case you happen to LIKE noise like that, FINE. Personal opinion is personal opinion and cannot be argued with, but in no way are you going to sit there and honestly say it sounds better or more real than a chip using actual REAL instrument data, because it ISN'T sounding better! It's just FM scratchy noise, nothing more!
Guden Oden said:Aahhahahah, hahhaahhah!
This is clearly f-boy drivel, no way a cheapass FM synth that originates in the early 1980s beats a real sample-based synth chip. It can't properly imitate real instruments no matter HOW hard a composer tries. It can only squeak and squawk and buzz, and in case you happen to LIKE noise like that, FINE. Personal opinion is personal opinion and cannot be argued with, but in no way are you going to sit there and honestly say it sounds better or more real than a chip using actual REAL instrument data, because it ISN'T sounding better! It's just FM scratchy noise, nothing more!
It all depends on the type of music that is being produced. While the SNES was far better at producing soundtracks that are based on realistic sounding instruments, the MD has it beat in soundtracks which are meant to sound synth driven. The SNES would have to use synth samples to produce a similar sound, and in doing so would inherit the sound characteristics that Squeak described. In the right hands a simple synth chip can produce very interesting sounds which would be hard to emulate with samples alone. I have never heard a SNES game with a synthy soundtrack sound as good as Streets of Rage I+II or Thunderforce IV.
By the way, the sound chip in the Atari ST was not the same as the one in the Megadrive. That was a YM2149 (AKA the AY-3-8910) rather than the MD's YM2612, and the two chips are completley different even down to their method of sound generation IIRC.
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Megadrive1988
Veteran
Shifty Geezer said:
I doubt it. I've seen 3+ year old threads reappear
Jaws said:I'd like a current arcade manufacturer to do that to showcase what the arcade should be about, designing and showcasing state of the art games and technology that home consoles can only dream to aspire to! The hardcore market could sustain it possibly. Would make a good second console.! 8) The Neo-Geo was a legend but I couldn't afford as I wasn't in employment. However, there are more hardcore gamers now with a bigger disposable income!
The NeoGeo was also 2d and cartridge based, it was seen as more expensive and inferior to the PSX and N64. It was a poor use of resources. I'm not even sure if it could best the Saturn and N64 in 2d graphics, apart from its use of huge carts and maybe having more ram? Anyhow, gaming PCs have largely taken over any high end market that existed.
I dunno, SNES graphics hold up pretty well to Neogeo, 32x, and the 3do despite the weaker specs (minus hardware effects, with pumped up ram and cart sizes, it may still have compared very well. SNES did often use extra chips on its carts to help graphics, but that was something the system was designed to do and it worked out fairly well. Did Donkey Kong Country use one? Those chips really helped push the SNES to another level though, giving it graphics that competed with the next (none) generation of 2d machines.
Seems bogus, considering there is no 900Mhz Pentium 4, though the G800 was Parhelia right? Those specs seem high for a parhelia, and shouldn't it be gigatexels (which I think the parhelia did about 3 or 4 gigatexels) and not gigapixels? Plus it put double fillrate, and then lists polygons? Who would pick Matrox hardware for an arcade machine anyway, though they and 3dfx were about the only companies left to include decent 2d acceleration at the time.
Wasn't it included in the Dreamcast as well? Or was that a 68000 that was included for sound in the dreamcast?
