Are you going to *change* your platform of choice going into next-gen?

I think BRiT is saying that those complaining will likely represent a small fraction of the total forum populace because people are inclined to be more vociferous in complaining than in supporting. That said, whatever backlash there is on that forum still represents a number of disgruntled XB fans, contrary to the notion that a lot of the anti-MS-policy voices have nothing to do with XB, which is what Nisaaru was saying. AzBat's theory could be true in a lot of open-platform fora, but the official Xbox forums show the views of official, Live-member Xbox gamers, so must be a good reference for seeing how MS's policies were received by their existing fanbase without bias (or even pro-XB bias).

 

I thought he was saying they were just European......

 

Yes, Shifty hit on what I was trying to indicate.

For pure entertainment, read the "My Account Was Banned" or the "My Console Was Banned" forum. It's hilarious how everyone blames their younger brother for the blatant disregard for the terms of service. The best is when XBox Support responds with how many times their account was hacking/cheating in games or is on their 57th forced gamer-tag rename due to obscenity. Or how that xbox is running hacked firmware. It's pure entertainment on how horrible people can act when behind the veil of anonymity.

 

Great post Phil.

I just wanted people to call a spade a spade & not act like it doesn't exist. That's how I took the "favors" & "preference" mentions.

I'll agree the forum is highly intelligent & for the most part it's civilized. That's more to do with the mods than anything, but there was a time when the forum was more middle than the leaning to left or right we have now. It's more off now than I remember. There are a few out there that agree with me, although I doubt they will publicly say.

I'm in that camp. I can only afford one. I picked the Xbox & then the 360. Yes, I'm biased. Why is it hard to say that?

Yes, it's logical, but the choice is heavily influenced by your own personal bias. How is that hard to understand? We're human not robots, there's going to be bias.

You may say you don't want Xbox to fail, but a lot of you seem to take in great pleasure in posting in threads about the Xbox One with evil glee. Never understood that. I hardly ever post in Playstation threads. I do read them from time to time, but I don't go out of my way to post in them. Do I secretly wish to see PS3 & PS4 fail? Oh sure, that would be funny for about a day & I would have a grand ole time. But then I would realize that lack of choice would be bad too. Damn, can't even have fun taking pleasure in Sony's what-if demise. Hehe.

You're right. It doesn't make you biased. But there still is bias. There's probably only a couple that walk the fine line: You & Shifty do well. There are a few others.

Take offense all you want. As much as you think this forum is better than NeoGAF, they are still very similar. Yes, it's better, but it still has its bias. I haven't denied that Microsoft screwed the pooch & that people are upset(even 360 owners). I've said as much before. I haven't been giving Microsoft a free pass either. But on the same token, I'm not giving up on them & going to the other side either. That's my personal bias at work.

Do you think that the one's that changed platforms would have made the same decision if not for the bias in this forum? Were they making decisions inside a vacuum? I don't think so. If it weren't for the leaks & the continually harping by those interested in the tech side about how inferior the Xbox One's graphics were, I'm not so sure the polls would have been so lopsided. Granted the DRM aspects didn't help matters either, but that's been reversed yet there was hardly in change in opinions. I wonder why that's the case? The tech that kept getting crapped on for months & months? Most likely. Kinect? Maybe a little. Most of you are hard core gamers, naturally a lot of you are biased against it. Price? A little, but it goes back to the tech & how you have ingrained this idea that it's inferior to the PS4.

So again, I'm not passing off the bias as a simple preference. Bias is clearly there. I'm calling a spade a spade. Bury your heads in the sand if it makes you feel better.

Tommy McClain

 

Agree with BRiT & Shifty. We're talking about a multi-platform forum here. I don't doubt a lot of folks on Xbox.com are upset. Most people who don't have a problem rarely go out of there way to post about it. I usually don't.

Tommy McClain

 

I guess you are right, to be biased is simply to be human. And it's only logical that someone who chose console X would have a vested interest in that console doing well, if not better than the rest (because better, potentially means more support).

I guess I have been tackling the argument from a different point. Yes, most are biased, but IMO that shouldn't necessarely be an issue, as long as the discussion is civilized and constructive. I guess I am biased too, although I do try my best to think outside the box and detach myself emotionally, so that I'm as neutral as an outsider in my arguments.

I think some of us do that well - even those that only have one console. I might be from the other side of the pond (relative to you), so I usually stay out of the Xbox games topics (if only to peak inside with a bit of curiosity), but find more enjoyment out of analyzing hardware specs or engaging in market related discussions. And I feel that in those discussions, it doesn't really matter what you own - because it is what it is and the conversation there can be held on a strictly analytical level.

As long as posters don't post in denial or refuse anothers opinion because of their bias and have thoughtout logical arguments, all the more fun for all of us - and this is the reason why I registered here back in 2002. First as a lurker, then eventually becoming a regular poster. I guess what my point boils down to - don't judge the poster, judge his post. Although he might be biased, it doesn't necessarely have to reflect on his post or the points he made.


And there will never be parity, here or elsewhere. This forum might have a majority of PS owners, but I don't think that has be something that is necessarely a negative.

To be really honest, I wouldn't know. I can only judge it from my own angle, as a PlayStation owner. This is a technical forum at heart, so yes, hardware analysis topics is a large area of interest for many. But to be really honest - even if the PS4 ended up being the inferior console hardware spec wise, it wouldn't sway me away from it. We've effectively had to endure inferior multiplatform games for the last 8 years (longer if you include the PS2/Xbox generation as well) and to be honest, I've never looked at my games thinking how much better they looked or how much smoother they run on the X360. Why? Because my most enjoyment from games doesn't come from the visual fidelity, but from the gameplay. CoD is still a lot more fun to play than other shooters that look better at the expense of framerate.

So that point leaves me pretty cold. Not everyone thinks like that, if we are to believe some posts. Perhaps it's a mentality that comes from people who play on the PC regularly (where they can effectively influence how good their game looks and runs by buying better hardware) and also happen to own a Xbox console. I simply don't know.

What wouldn't leave me cold, is if Sony would pull a Nintendo Wii stunt and go all out for the casual gaming market - substantially weaker hardware, focused on Move games (perhaps even ridded themselve of the traditional controller) and on features that go beyond gaming. This would mean that effectively the games that I enjoyed 3 entire generations would evaporate. Sony might be successfull, just as Wii was, but they would lose me as a customer. It would force me to move on to a different console that caters to my interest (I bet a lot of GameCube owners who weren't happy with Wii ended up buying a PS3 or X360), meaning I would need to adjust to a new and different eco-system, different controller etc.

Now of course, the Xbox One isn't exactly that. But it's going in that direction - and I think that's where the results from this poll come from. Not necessarely because of the hardware specs, but because the entire package seems to focus on a larger market that goes beyond the core-market. Certain trade-offs were made and not everyone agrees with them. If the roles were reversed, I'd be highly critical too (just as I've been very critical of KZ3 multiplayer changes over KZ2). Now of course, the situation might not be that bleak. They might be very successfull with the business approach they've chosen - but that doesn't necessarely mean that their loyal fanbase is standing as strongly behind them as before. And this is where this poll is fascinating IMO.

Even if we have predominently PS owners on this forum, it shouldn't sway the results too much, because like me, they've voted that they will not change their console of choice. What we do see however is the people that are unhappy with the direction their console of choice is taking - and taking these results, it gives us a better understanding on what pros and cons the general business approach has (although the poll doesn't show which casuals who don't own a current console might buy a Xbox One for exactly those features that isn't the primary interest of gamers).

Of course, you are right that the more vocal users (or press/media) influences others around them - but that can go both ways too. In the end, it boils down to the business approach the company chose and how well the market accepts it.

If bias has any place - then I would think that posters in favour of their console doing well are perhaps rather optimistic (seeing the immense potential, even if to some degree through rose-tinted glasses) and the posters from the other side perhaps rather pessimistic and overly critical. I think both angles have their place as long as posted in a constructive way and in the end, the truth likely is bound to being somewhere in the middle...


PS: Nice post btw and sorry for my lengthy reply...

 

Sorry to jump in here, but this is just BS.

MS decided to slide low on the tech budget. Sony fanboys had nothing to do with it. Neither did MS deserters. Bias played zero role in that.

The fact that many xbox gamers are jumping ship because of it, is again 100% on MS. Sad thing is MS were the ones that built the expectation in the first place. They continually invested heavily in advancing graphics tech forward. With xbone they mailed it in.

Surprise surprise, a tech forum called them out on it. I'm actually in disbelief with how little flack they have taken over the inept die size they allocated to the GPU (~120mm2). Nevermind the netbook cpu clocked at 1.6GHz.

Overall, it's a very weak box for this timeframe. Had they dropped this box in 2010, yeah it would have been more impressive, but this is 3 years on from that.

 

The world has cycles. It is the natural order of things. The ancient Roman civilization fell, and old empires like the Byzantine Empire also fell.

I know these are hard times for a Xbox fan and the Xbox had a little stumble, but I see no bias in the site, trust me on this one. It's funny because I know a guy who is registered here who is a core fan of anything Sony who used to say that Beyond3D was totally pro-Microsoft.

If you look at the past, yes, it seemed to be. I was a well-informed person and I never truly fancied a PS3 'cos I knew developers disliked some features and simply because it didn't seem that appealing --among other things. I wouldn't like to put myself in the shoes of a PS3 fan back then tbh.

Now compare the PS4 to the PS3, it's day and night.

I remember fellow forumers like Titanic -or Titanium, I am not sure- who was a Sony enthusiast and he stopped posting following the negative backlash in the forums -sorry if I am wrong I got that impression-.

Also remember the Wii360 platform which was created like 7 years ago, when the PS3 was considered a disaster and it was so expensive.

 

I don't particularly care that the Bone is "technically inferior" in to the PS4, because it's only inferior if you compare what you can easily compare and ignore Kinect 2.

Both Bone and PS4 are low spec compared to a high end gaming PC. But Kinect 2 is "high end" compared to ... anything, probably.

I just hope there are games that really drive home what a skin tone, facial expression and claw-hand reading camera can bring to game (rather than TV) interfaces. Oh yeah, and the 3D mic array with noise cancelling - having that as standard is badass too.

 

They still have to deliver something in gameplay, beyond just tech demos and mirroring on screen what you do in front of the camera.

It doesn't even sound like it can fully replicate what you need to do with the controller.

So how is it going to complement the controller to open up new gameplay?

 

People have to use their imagination when it comes to Kinect.

The tech is good enough now, that someone will develop something awesome for it.

 

Remember all the higher quantization audio formats which have come and gone?

Sometimes good tech doesn't become widely used.

 

Yap, I think good things take time to stew.

 

I disagree. I used my imagination (helped by Sony's PR vids) with sixaxis and PSEye, and was let down. I can imagine all sorts of great uses for Kinect, but I'm not going to believe it'll be a great experience until someone proves it.

 

I am the one percent and I'm going to change my platform.

Ha!

 

I own both PS3 and 360.
I consider my PS3 my console of choice, since most of the xbox exclusives I like I can play on PC as well.

This time, I'll go PS4 and if MS really impress me, I might buy their console somewhere down the road.
They also have to convince me, that their hardware is made to last...
I had three consoles RROD on me. By the second time, I was always waiting for it to happen, and it was very off putting.
I never finished GeOW 2 because of it, and I have GeOW 3 sitting on a self because my third console died the moment I put the disk in it.

So as a consumer, the difference of my experience between the two consoles, is abysmal.

 

Why isn't there a both console choice?

I would think most members here, like on many other forums, have both and will probably get both.

 

If you're buying both consoles, you aren't changing.

 

how about going from 2 consoles to one?

Or going from one to two consoles?

In any event, if most members have two consoles, then the poll isn't capturing the majority of the members.

 

Thanks! Awesome post too! Going to make a bad pun... I had my "Phil" of this discussion & had to take a break. I think I was able to say all I needed. No sense in responding point by point, but I did want to quote a few of your points that I agree with(there were a lot more) & that were the heart of the matter. So in the end I think we agree more than we disagree. How about a big hug? I love this forum. It's been part of my life for more than a decade. I just needed to air some things that weighed on my mind. Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

Tommy McClain

P.S. Thanks to the mods for giving me a little leeway. Greatly appreciate it.