My condolences Shifty, this is sad news to hear.
Architecture and Products - read-only: temporary or permanent?
- Thread starter CarstenS
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Yeah i feel truly bad for him, that just sucks. These personal attacks on forums really need to stop now, no more. Calling someone a piece of shit could actually be someone that recently lost a family member, having that on top of that can really put some more emotional stress on him/her. I usually counter claims regarding pc and console, but theres never a reason to attack someone personally for one selfs opinion i think.
Rys one time has stated to never attack any personally, right?
it's a general rule we should not attack the posters themselves but the arguments, that's generally applicable across the forum. That's the proper way to debate and forum, attacking people is just unnecessary. No one is particularly innocent here in refraining from it, I'm sure we've all been guilty of it at some point in our lives or another, but it's how we resolve it after we've done it that defines the discussion following.
there is a common phrase that is said through the generations: "for even enemies can show respect"
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DavidGraham
Veteran
I am a Neurologist and a Psychiatrist (yes I work in both fields), I oversee patients in multiple Stroke Units, and Psychiatric Wards, as a result of that, I treat patients across a wide spectrum of diseases, whether Cerebral Infarction, Hemorrhage, Encephalitis, Neuropathy, or Depression, Psychosis, Mania, or Schizophrenia, I am also an expert in administering Electric Shock Therapy to the brain, otherwise known as ECT (Electro-Convulsive Therapy) .. it's a dark science with a heavy requirement of a healthy dose of technical knowledge. I treated hundreds of psychiatric patients with ECT and helped save lives from suicidal thoughts, crippling depression, or chronic disability as a result of a Stroke.
So in essence I am a scientist solving problems, I am methodical, data driven, meticulous researcher and a patient investigator, I have solid memory, I am also good at picking trends and general directions, I am also extremely good at making projections based on these trends. I am also a sucker for graphics, technology and pushing boundaries, and yes I am biased towards that. I am also severely forgiving and patient towards insults (a trait necessary for my job), and don't like to engage in personal attacks or arguments.
I am not involved in marketing campaigns, or company support programs and I don't need handouts or marketing money. My job pays me handsomely, I engage in tech discussions in the spare time during my hospital shifts or between my clinic hours .. they help distract me from my rigorous daily routine.
This is my personal information, I don't like your insinuation or your attitude, and I severely disagree with your statement, you simply know nothing about me, but at least now you know enough.
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Maybe restating it in different terms so everyone can understand:
People are defecating all over the place and you are blaming the janitors for not being able to clean it up fast enough instead of the those making the mess.
You truly have no idea how insulting that is.
People are defecating all over the place and you are blaming the janitors for not being able to clean it up fast enough instead of the those making the mess.
You truly have no idea how insulting that is.
itsmydamnation
Veteran
wow this thread went to crap.
I know correlation doesn't equal causation but if it walks like a duck , talks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Then its a bloody duck!
I know correlation doesn't equal causation but if it walks like a duck , talks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Then its a bloody duck!
its amazing some peoples lack of self awareness.DavidGraham
Veteran
OK, let's rephrase it, people are defecating all over the hospital, so the janitors close down the hospital in the face of patients and attendees to stop them! Is that the logical thing to do?
The logical thing to do is for janitors to call security to stop those defecators or lock them down or remove them from the hospital.
That post with piece of crap and all that, thats really going too far imo. Even in this site-feedback section that shouldnt happen. Attack the opinions not the poster. I prefer PC gaming and that obviously shows, just as it does for those who swear by consoles.
I seldomly have attacked users personally, however some attack me personally whenever my opinions about their hardware/software doesnt align with theirs. Its just weird.
I don't have the time to post very often anymore. When I was posting in higher volumes though, I didn't find it very hard to stay mostly on the right side of moderation. It's mostly maintaining an understanding that our community has an agenda. That agenda is to have interesting, enlightening and/or entertaining discussions about 3D graphics technology and related subjects. Any time a poster's personal agenda is at odds with that community agenda they are in the wrong.
Regardless whether it's their posts or their reactions to the posts of others posters should be asking themselves, "Am I promoting "good"discussion or interfering with it?"
Futily trying to win unwinnable arguments, endlessly parroting the same points over and over again, engaging in personal attacks, being hostile towards other posters simply because they disagree with you, not being able to end an engagement with an "agree to disagree" and move on are the most problematic behaviors and all they take is a little personal restraint to avoid.
Regardless whether it's their posts or their reactions to the posts of others posters should be asking themselves, "Am I promoting "good"discussion or interfering with it?"
Futily trying to win unwinnable arguments, endlessly parroting the same points over and over again, engaging in personal attacks, being hostile towards other posters simply because they disagree with you, not being able to end an engagement with an "agree to disagree" and move on are the most problematic behaviors and all they take is a little personal restraint to avoid.
That's truly terrible to hear. My condolences to you and your family.
Maybe a temporary remedy/experiment is to limit posts per thread to a certain number(1or2 to start?) per a specified time period, 12 or 24 hours. Might have to limit edits to an hour or so?
It would potentially increase the substance of the individual's posts while keeping the forum/section open and the threads moving ontopic without drowning in back-and-forth banter.
I'm of the opinion that it seems to be a handful of people that are engaging in purposeful trolling/negativity towards a certain IHV.
That said, I don't like the idea of outright banning people just because I find their posts/opinions to be biased with dishonest negativity.
Though I do find it difficult at times to ignore and not engage the aforementioned people but it does seem to get easier with age/time because it simply isn't worth it.
I also know I would sorely miss this forum because the information and knowledge I have learned here is unrivaled compared to other tech/march/GPU forums.
For me personally, this forum is one of the core reasons I got into the semiconductor field. My niche hobby of reading and discussing hardware got me into my career.
While I think the easy solution (because I don't have to make the call and put in the effort) is for the mods to be somewhat heavy handed with warnings and timeouts when needed, again I hate bans, I think we all need to look inward and self-moderate better.
Do our posts actually contribute anything to the community/thread/topic? If not, why are we posting that crap? It not only makes ourselves look stupid but also the community...
Hope we can find a way to make this work, longterm, without being a hindrance to the mods.
It would potentially increase the substance of the individual's posts while keeping the forum/section open and the threads moving ontopic without drowning in back-and-forth banter.
I'm of the opinion that it seems to be a handful of people that are engaging in purposeful trolling/negativity towards a certain IHV.
That said, I don't like the idea of outright banning people just because I find their posts/opinions to be biased with dishonest negativity.
Though I do find it difficult at times to ignore and not engage the aforementioned people but it does seem to get easier with age/time because it simply isn't worth it.
I also know I would sorely miss this forum because the information and knowledge I have learned here is unrivaled compared to other tech/march/GPU forums.
For me personally, this forum is one of the core reasons I got into the semiconductor field. My niche hobby of reading and discussing hardware got me into my career.
While I think the easy solution (because I don't have to make the call and put in the effort) is for the mods to be somewhat heavy handed with warnings and timeouts when needed, again I hate bans, I think we all need to look inward and self-moderate better.
Do our posts actually contribute anything to the community/thread/topic? If not, why are we posting that crap? It not only makes ourselves look stupid but also the community...
Hope we can find a way to make this work, longterm, without being a hindrance to the mods.
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The "janitors" have seen the shit-faucets operate for years. Only they can close the shit streams. They are in the front-lines of the shit-eating buffet. If you know who "those making the mess" are, why are they still here?
Shifty (very sorry mate) argues posters should self regulate and learn to be "philosophers" posters. This is a great. But some people, "those making the mess" page after page and year after year, won't ever learn. That's who they are.
Also, it can be hard to not take the bait and one reply can be all it take to start a big derail. One reply out of 100 readers and the shit-ball gets a'rollin.
To expand on the self moderate special meme idea there should be 3 separate special memes: Off-topic, Disagree, and Approve.
Off-topic is for when a poster is straying and needs to discontinue or rethink their approach,
Disagree is when the accused disagrees and wants to open a Conversation with the accuser(s),
Approve is when an agreement is reached and used so other people will be aware that the post issues have been resolved.
There is no limit to the number of special memes a post can accumulate but there are consequences if issuing the meme out of spite.
The Disagree meme is special because it can also be used to hold malicious or vindictive responses accountable.
Malicious or vindictive responses should have a minimum 1 month ban if not resolved.
Just an idea but think we need some "out-of-the-box" ideas to lessen Moderation tasks.
That can be complicated. One of the primary derailments is people voicing that they think some other poster shouldn't be around. Often posters are fine when not in the company of their antagonist. Get rid of one player and the other is okay, but which one? Also you don't know when a new member should be allowed chance to grow - if you look at my thread considering the idea of voting members off, you'll see feedback from people saying they have been allowed to stay and grow. Then you have more members than we can keep track of. I genuinely don't know a lot of the posters in PC threads and wouldn't know who's trouble and who's just being baited. It can take me a lot of time to review a thread I wasn't a part of to try and find what started the derailment. The only common element is the same names coming up but you don't know which are the trouble-makers and which are the sensible posters getting frustrated.
Or put simply, there'll be people here I might think should go that many members would be up in arms over their ejection and wondering why the other guy wasn't kicked out instead!
If members self moderated effectively, it'd be a lot easier who was creating the shit because the rest of the board wouldn't be wallowing in it.This I disagree with. I responded to DavidGraham very angrily and emotionally (he saw, we've talked
).As I said, I wasn't moderating. My brother died unexpectedly on Boxing Day. Fuck off you fucking arrogant shit. And take your fucking nVidia propaganda with you.
The emotional energy behind my outburst was the sudden death of a close brother, but I was still able to self moderate even when many would excuse my response. I can't see any scenario where the emotion of Platform A versus Platform B excuses a lack of self moderation. DavidGraham calls it a 'naive fantasy'. I disagree. I believe people are better than that and the pursuit isn't naive fantasy. It just needs those who want a better forum to commit to the ideal, and then it'll be obvious, those who don't care who can then be excluded.
Proposal:
Can we rename the boards to "Architecture only" and "Graphics Products and Semidconductor Industry" respectively? And then - maybe after a grace period - vigorously just deleting off-topic postings in the "Architecture only"-forum that derail threads into pricing debates, console stuff and/or marketing stunts? Combined with a 3-day (or so) temp-ban and three strikes ( = perma ban) no questions asked? Maybe people will learn? I don't know.
Or could the moderation maybe share some of their ideas that are being considered in order to improve things? The cross-post from the announcement implied, you had some brighter ideas of your own? If there's anything I can help with, i'd be willing to listen.
Can we rename the boards to "Architecture only" and "Graphics Products and Semidconductor Industry" respectively? And then - maybe after a grace period - vigorously just deleting off-topic postings in the "Architecture only"-forum that derail threads into pricing debates, console stuff and/or marketing stunts? Combined with a 3-day (or so) temp-ban and three strikes ( = perma ban) no questions asked? Maybe people will learn? I don't know.
Or could the moderation maybe share some of their ideas that are being considered in order to improve things? The cross-post from the announcement implied, you had some brighter ideas of your own? If there's anything I can help with, i'd be willing to listen.
Maybe we need something like RPSC?
A standalone, unmoderated playpen where IHV affiliates, "independent" advocates and vendor preference enthusiasts can frolic to their hearts content discussing the pressing and contentious marketing and industry politics issues of the day?
A standalone, unmoderated playpen where IHV affiliates, "independent" advocates and vendor preference enthusiasts can frolic to their hearts content discussing the pressing and contentious marketing and industry politics issues of the day?
lol. I chuckled at the thought of someone needing to opt-in into a cesspool unmoderated forum.
My fear on this one, is that threads/personal feelings tend to have a way to migrate, and that any incomplete arguments/feelings there would find itself into the main forums.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Here's a general rule of thumb, more people should attempt to live by, IMO.
If you write a post. You should then imagine your post written by someone else directed at you. Would it put you on the defensive? Would it make you feel attacked? Would you be offended by it? If yes, then you should either not post it or rewrite it in such a way that it conveys the message without conveying the negative emotions.
Is it perfect? No. Not everyone is offended by the same things. But if you know you are writing inciteful language that is likely to put someone on the defensive, then there's a high chance that you've just started a (pardon the expression) shit posting chain or you are helping to enflame, enlarge, expand and continue a shit posting chain. Again, rewrite it in more neutral language, don't post it or if it's in response to another post, perhaps just ignore the offending post and continue about your day.
Doesn't matter if you feel you are in the right. Everyone feels they are in the right even if they might be wrong. And sometimes, there's neither right nor wrong. And occasionally, both parties are arguing for the same thing but interpreting what the other person is saying in the wrong way (the most unfortunate of arguments) due to the imprecision of language (especially when it may not be a speaker's native language).
I try to limit my occasional emotion outbursts to rants aimed at nobody, or at least nobody on this forum. Am I perfect about it? No, but I'd like to think my SNR is pretty low WRT enflammatory posts. Then again everyone probably thinks that.
Regards,
SB
If you write a post. You should then imagine your post written by someone else directed at you. Would it put you on the defensive? Would it make you feel attacked? Would you be offended by it? If yes, then you should either not post it or rewrite it in such a way that it conveys the message without conveying the negative emotions.
Is it perfect? No. Not everyone is offended by the same things. But if you know you are writing inciteful language that is likely to put someone on the defensive, then there's a high chance that you've just started a (pardon the expression) shit posting chain or you are helping to enflame, enlarge, expand and continue a shit posting chain. Again, rewrite it in more neutral language, don't post it or if it's in response to another post, perhaps just ignore the offending post and continue about your day.
Doesn't matter if you feel you are in the right. Everyone feels they are in the right even if they might be wrong. And sometimes, there's neither right nor wrong. And occasionally, both parties are arguing for the same thing but interpreting what the other person is saying in the wrong way (the most unfortunate of arguments) due to the imprecision of language (especially when it may not be a speaker's native language).
I try to limit my occasional emotion outbursts to rants aimed at nobody, or at least nobody on this forum. Am I perfect about it? No, but I'd like to think my SNR is pretty low WRT enflammatory posts. Then again everyone probably thinks that.
Regards,
SB
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