Why has the "Architecture and Products" forum turned into such a blatant anti-AMD circlejerk?

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by ToTTenTranz, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. ToTTenTranz

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    Yes, it's a loaded title for the topic. And no, the title does not invite discussion. It invites feces-flinging from trolls and fanboys because the participants will be already mad about it if they don't agree with the suggestion in the title. Which will bring me to my point later on.


    Let me start by saying I'm perfectly aware that the mods have other stuff to do and I'm really glad of their patience and work so far.
    But boy, have things gone out of hand in the forum with some decisions and (lack of?) action.


    Each and every thread about AMD products has been scrambled together into one huge fat unreadable and unsearchable thread. No more R300 series thread, no more R400 series thread. I read it was supposed to be a temporary solution but it's been several months and the mess is still the same.
    Threads for speculations, threads for product reviews, threads for announcements, etc. were are mangled up into this ridiculous mega-thread and it just stayed like that indefinitely.


    Out of the "top 10 threads" in that forum:
    - One is about Pascal announcements;
    - One is about Pascal reviews;
    - One is about Pascal INT/FP performance
    - One is about Volta speculation
    - One is the stupid AMD 5000 (five-thousand) post megathread that is always derailing (and at the same time is never derailing because the thread is about everything).
    - One is about AMD being so bad as IHV, assuming they "have already lost the race" and celebrating/circlejerking around that;
    - One is about telling how all the DX12 titles where AMD cards present better results are so bad and wrong because the devs implementing DX12 paths are probably murdering baby dolphins
    - One about output options
    - One about a very specific technical capability

    (thank goodness for the last two?)

    And this is only in the "architecture and products", because the thing is infesting other areas, like this ridiculous tinfoil-hatery.
    Plus, all the circlejerks are being regularly, systematically and persistently maintained by the same group of 5-6 die-hard anti-AMD fanboys (and they all consistently put "likes" in each others' posts no matter how ridiculous the content is, in order to raise their presence, just like all facebook BFFs do).


    I know there's only so much that a mod can do when facing users that are mostly following rules even though they only post biased content 24/7. But is there a need to create or allow threads with loaded titles, like "why is AMD already losing" and "Vulkan is an AMD construct"?
    Even if I believe some of these titles were created as irony (like the Vulkan one), it's not good for discussion and it's doing nothing but helping the circlejerk grow and derail all sensible discussion.

    I hate to see that as much as I would hate to see threads titled "Why is nvidia spitting in all our collective faces by not having support for adaptive sync" or "why is nvidia continually screwing up our pc games with gameworks?"
    This would appear in search engines as such and would bring even more trolls to what used to be sensible discussions in the forum.
    The amount of anti-AMD trolls devotees is growing everyday.

    Today there was a guy that created an account just to protest about a link I put of a graphics card being sold for cheaper than usual.
    It was literally me just posting "oh the prices are coming down, here's one" and the guy created an account 8 hours later just to say "that's irrelevant because they have only one in stock!!!!11oneone". Followed, of course, by instant acknowledgment from anti-AMD-circlejerking daddies #1 and #2. They just found a new BFF.
     
    #1 ToTTenTranz, Sep 9, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
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  2. 3dilettante

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    I fear that the AMD thread merger may be irreversible at this point, and if it is we may just need to find a way to fork discussions going forward.
    Some confirmation that it would be fine to create new threads without it being considered a conflict with earlier moderation would help. Then, perhaps as new AMD products or new movement on another generation surfaces they can get their own thread. Bare minimum, it might split Vega out at some point next year when AMD provides it.

    I thought the AMD losing thread was somewhat redundant with the existing gloom thread, so I thought it might be moved to the other subforum. That would create the case of there being two gloom threads to Nvidia's one gloom thread that has stopped being a gloom thread due to Nvidia being successful.
    There is something more of a graphics focus for that thread however, reminiscent of how there's a Bulldozer thread in the other architecture forum that basically trended to another AMD thread filled with disappointment.

    The AMD graphics losing thread is something I think wouldn't be a major loss if closed, although if there is some unavoidable impulse for people to care who is a fan boy or start endless pissing matches it might serve a purpose as a central location for utter non-contribution--if it's moved somewhere I don't need to see it.
     
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  3. ToTTenTranz

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    ^^ 100x this, because I remember seeing said new threads being closed because everything was already in the "mega-thread" and it would eventually be distributed accordingly.
     
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  4. willardjuice

    willardjuice super willyjuice
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    You can create threads! Just as a full disclosure, that whole mess happened because a moderator who was not familiar with that section of the forum thought it would be a good idea to consolidate threads (and did so without consulting other moderators). And perhaps in the right environment it would be, but ultimately the moderating team agreed that's just not how that section of B3D operates. Unfortunately there's no "undo" functionality for this type of moderator action and thus here we are today. Please feel empowered to make new amd threads! :-D

    As for the topic in general, I guess I'm just jaded but is ignoring those threads such a burden? I prefer to let [that section of] the forum moderate themselves and only get involved when I absolutely have to. I assume most users prefer it this way. If the general consensus is that the moderator team should take a more active role, then we can.

    What I suggest to you is not to take it so personally. Like yeah obviously vulkan is not a gcn construct and anyone who believes that is ignorant (of either graphics apis or Khronos!). In those situations if you feel like you want to set the OP straight (which you shouldn't feel obligated to do!), politely point out why this is a ridiculous claim. If the OP still wants to stick his head in the sand, let him. You'll find that many people here (sadly) don't actually care about graphics architectures, but would rather justify their gpu purchase. In those situations, no amount of title moderation will help. ;-) One of the best things I learned about interacting on internet forums is simply don't respond to people who clearly don't want to (or are incapable of) learning. There is nothing wrong with walking away.
     
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  5. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
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    The reason that happened was the following:
    1. Moderator created separate threads for various discussion topics by spawning off discussions from singular thread
    2. A very vocal group of users complained repeatedly about there being too many topics
    3. Moderator asked what was wanted
    4. The very vocal group said they wanted things to go back to how they were before the Moderator moderated the threads
    5. The moderator then undid all the thread spawning that was performed
    6. The singular thread is the result from undoing all the Moderator's actions.

    The good news is, it has been decided amongst the moderation team what the direction in that forum should be and everyone is onboard.

    The final outcome can be summed up by the following:
    1. There will be separate discussions amongst certain core discussion points
    2. The very vocal group of complainers will have to deal with it
    3. It's best if users can learn to moderate their discussions themselves, as such there will be minimal moderation unless absolutely required to keep core discussion points.
     
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  6. eastmen

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    I mean we don't need 50 threads for AMD but 2-3 would be nice its a cluster to find any information now.
     
  7. Rys

    Rys PowerVR
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    I had planned to go through the last 2-3 months of posts in the megathread and split it out into separate threads again. I tried that almost half a dozen times (on the test forum to make sure I got it right) but I couldn't seem to tease the threads apart where it wasn't rubbish and didn't break the idea that you can search within a thread and get usable search results (I use thread search all the time).

    So please create new threads for new topics to discuss, and sorry we haven't been more active in encouraging that. Willard is right, too: just ignore the bits you don't like and create and foster the discussions you want to see.
     
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  8. Rodéric

    Rodéric a.k.a. Ingenu
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    Maybe we could close the megathreads so people create new ones...
     
  9. Miksu

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    Good to hear that mega-threads are not the way when going forward. I'm in favor of closing the current thread.
     
  10. 3dilettante

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    It could be allowed to drop naturally if as topics that can be self-sustaining migrate to a new thread.
     
  11. DavidGraham

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    In my technical read-throughs around the web, I have never seen such users who complain about people discussing technical points in a non personal non fantastical terms, being attacked and harassed on a personal level with snarky ridiculous remarks and posts that has little to do with discussions! And then ask the mods to censor technical discussions because they get on your nerves! If you are incapable of bearing other people exchange technical data without presenting one yourself, then I suggest you stay clear of such discussions. You are only embarrassing yourself there. Holding a pitchfork looking for a fight in defense of I don't know what!

    Now the Vulkan thread:
    First I didn't create this thread, it was a discussion about the negative performance scaling invoked through Vulkan in Doom and other games/APIs. A discussion which clearly had merits, it also extended to the consequences that said behavior will inflict upon said APIs. Some facts were corrected. A mod decided to make it a different thread. The discussion there is ongoing and facts continue to be corrected, new data continue to surface and a conclusion to all matters is yet to be made (it's an ongoing issue after all).

    As for the other threads, you clearly don't understand how technical discussions are initiated: a phenomenon or an observation occurs, people starts mentioning it and discussing it, opinions and facts fly, conclusion, consensus and awareness are made, people learn. All those threads you attack contain the same formula, If you choose to stick your head in the sand and accept PR crap from the company you love as facts and ignore sound arguments then by all means do so, just leave other members alone because frankly we are fed up of this bullish childish behavior. I presume you consider all the great knowledgeable members here participating in these same threads you attack frenzly, also as circlejerkers right?

    You are asking why many threads are directed at AMD theses days? Well could it be because AMD screws up big these days? If so this is only natural. did you see any user here complain about threads about bad GameWorks or the 970 memory gate, or the Kepler regressing in performance compared to GCN? Nope, because people here are mature enough to know when a sound argument is presented. You didn't even like it when discussions were made around the Rx 480 powergate!
     
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  12. I.S.T.

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    Eh, there were some nvidia fanboys whining around the time the gameworks threads were popping up...
     
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  13. ToTTenTranz

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  14. Sinistar

    Sinistar I LIVE
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    one of the reasons I canceled my subscription
     
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  15. ToTTenTranz

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    Would you be able to take something like this not so personally?


    et al


    Just to be clear, how far will "self-moderating" go in that sub?
     
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  16. ieldra

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    My best advice would be to not behave in such a way that enables other users to respond to you in this way.


    Another piece of advice would be to not take my posts out of context, and to be honest about your own behavior; starting by admitting to your infantile insults/remarks; referring to me as 'he/she/it' would be a good place to start.


    I stand by everything I said in that thread.


    I did not insult you, and my statements regarding your behavior were (and still are) accurate.
     
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  17. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    I can only weigh in as a moderator seeing posts reported. I basically don't do moderation outside of the console space as I know it's a separate culture and don't know the characters involved to be able to read complaints in context. When it comes to reports from the PC fora, I don't know what the history is and can only respond to obvious, notable infractions. There have been quite a few reports lately from the PC fora and the "AMD in a laptop" thread, and, with almost all of them, I'm not seeing the problem. There are claims of trolling and flame-baiting and insults that I'm literally not seeing as an impartial outsider, leading me to think there's a lot of history in play colouring people's perceptions.

    Some of the comments are perhaps a little more sardonic and less polite than they could be, but I'm not seeing anything overstepping the bounds of the usual quality of B3D discussion. It's certainly above the standard of the console forum when there's an unproductive presence there, which at the moment we have moderated away and I think we're very nicely settled.

    Typically when it comes to someone retaliating, the person they are retaliating against was themselves retaliating for an earlier issue, or a perceived insult where maybe one wasn't meant. Ultimately, falling back to bickering and 'descending to their level' is what causes threads/fora to go to pieces. Good advice always is "be the bigger man/woman/thing." There's never anything to be gained from using insults in an argument - we should all be using facts and Science.

    And if someone is wrong and just isn't getting it no matter what you say and they're driving you nuts and you just want to frickin' give them a damned good piece of you mind...put them on your ignore list! Because sometimes there are personality clashes that can't be resolved and you should (both) just walk away.

    Probably doesn't help much, but that's the only 1.62 pence I can offer.
     
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  18. DavidGraham

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    I see the loose canon didn't waste anytime bumping into almost every other member on the forums! Will he actually take notice of his behavior and adjust? or stubbornly go on a self righteous quest to justify his own bullying?
     
  19. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    Some parts of the forum do that already... :yes:
     
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  20. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    This is precisely the wrong sort of response. You're absolutely entitled to feel that way, but expressing it in a thread is just going to derail the thread with your personal disagreements. Both this and ToTTenTranz's opening language are inevitably going to lead to crap.

    It serves no purpose. Don't do it. In threads, stick to facts and arguments and leave personalities out of it.
     
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