It spawns directly from users being unable to control themselves and their interactions. Trying to pinpoint it to a single thread or interaction is not seeing the forest from the trees.
Architecture and Products - read-only: temporary or permanent?
- Thread starter CarstenS
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It spawns directly from users being unable to control themselves and their interactions. Trying to pinpoint it to a single thread or interaction is not seeing the forest from the trees.
If you find yourself pointing out who it was responsible for everything going wrong, you've missed the point and are part of the problem. The unstoppable need to justify oneself as right - right about products, right about people's agendas, right about calling people out - more than wanting to be a part of an interesting discussion that raises questions, discovers patterns, highlights ideas or possibilities one has missed, is what breaks sooooo many threads. Number of mods can't stop it. Everyone is appointed a deputy moderator of themselves when signing up. Few manage to execute those responsibilities effectively*.
* That's possibly unfair on those that do. There are thousands of registered users. There are possibly a lot that moderate themselves from posting crap and just read.
* That's possibly unfair on those that do. There are thousands of registered users. There are possibly a lot that moderate themselves from posting crap and just read.
DavidGraham
Veteran
Then you don't understand human nature, and all the "drives" that drive it, everyone in this life is out to learn and prove themselves, what you want is a forum full of philosphers, and this is never going to happen, waiting for it to happen means you are just wasting everyone's time for a fruitless endeavor.
And you would be wrong too, even great philosphers need the constant interactions, exchanges, even the simplest and most crude ideas from commoners, little things that brainstorms their minds with fresh ways, force them to seek new directions, or even to simplify concepts which often spawns even more new ideas and discoveries. Teachers often understand the subject even more when they teach it to other people, because they gain an even deeper knowledge of that subject when they explain it in multiple ways, and when they get asked dumb questions.
So even philosphers and professors can't stand to live on their own and amonst themselves, their ideas would worn out and die. Intelligence itself is a constant fight between several idea and decisions.
What you are asking for is simply unattainable and a form of a naive fantasy. The best you can do is to prepare for the worst and "deal" with it in a smart and proper way, otherwise you are just a hyporcite of your own ideal, how can you claim to be smart, knowledgible and open to possibilities when your own actions are no different than savages or amateurs running a KG forum.
And you would be wrong too, even great philosphers need the constant interactions, exchanges, even the simplest and most crude ideas from commoners, little things that brainstorms their minds with fresh ways, force them to seek new directions, or even to simplify concepts which often spawns even more new ideas and discoveries. Teachers often understand the subject even more when they teach it to other people, because they gain an even deeper knowledge of that subject when they explain it in multiple ways, and when they get asked dumb questions.
So even philosphers and professors can't stand to live on their own and amonst themselves, their ideas would worn out and die. Intelligence itself is a constant fight between several idea and decisions.
What you are asking for is simply unattainable and a form of a naive fantasy. The best you can do is to prepare for the worst and "deal" with it in a smart and proper way, otherwise you are just a hyporcite of your own ideal, how can you claim to be smart, knowledgible and open to possibilities when your own actions are no different than savages or amateurs running a KG forum.
Of course they can, you just chose the easy way out, you simply gave up, so don't sugarcoat it.
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Agree on that one, its impossible its just one or a handfull of users guilty for the forum gone downhill the last decade or so.
That...is exactly what I said. You should want the exploration and ideas, not the fight to prove yourself right. It's about learning and growing, not reiterating "I am right" at every point. And yes, I want 'philosophers' and better people. And if that's impossible, so is every ideal. We tend to work towards them anyway even if 'impossible'. But there are plenty of people who have grown up, learnt self control, learnt the value in other opinions they disagree with, and learnt when to just let it go and agree to disagree instead of escalating emotions to no constructive end ever. Has calling someone stupid or biased or naive ever managed to change anyone's mind? Has it ever stopped a discussion from stalling and pushed in a new positive direction. When you've seen someone's wrong and felt the need to keep on and on at them to change their mind, has that ever worked? It doesn't work so why do it?
As I said, I wasn't moderating. My brother died unexpectedly on Boxing Day.
How many mod/admin jobs have you worked for how many years? How many sites? Jeebus you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about and you're acting like you're informed about it. Please stop, the stupid is so painful it burns!
This isn't trying to start trouble, this is me calling you a spoiled and ungrateful piece of shit for expecting everyone to clean up your messes or take your shit. Just stop.
My deepest condolences, you shouldn't have to put up with this shit too.
Do you know if there’s any sort of plan to re-open the forum? All I heard was “for a while” and that was in early November. It’s unclear if this was the original plan.
Aside from everything else:
Oh man, i feel sorry for you, really that shows how 'important' online discussions are..... Real life and family/friends are much more important, they are the things that matter.
I’m so very sorry to hear that. My deepest sympathies.
I hope you and your family are able to heal and find peace.
DavidGraham
Veteran
This was a general statement, it's not directed against you, it's directed against the decision to declare more mods as a no go solution and a failure before even trying it. I thought that was rather obvious. And I hoped it wouldn't be understood the other way around, or to deteriorate into name calling.
My deepest condolences to you and your brother, I wish him an eternal happiness in what lies beyond.
We are not in a disagrrement here, we are just disgareeing over the ways to enforce it, I propose more moderation, more stoppong of offtopic discussions, more thread spawning of interesting new directions, more removing perosnal attacks and stopping trolls. What you are proposing is shutting everything off and then what exactly? Wait for more philosphers to show up?
I hope in the end I got my point across (and I know it has), we are human beings driven by emotions even in the face of overwhelming logic, you just need to self moderate, and if that fails let someone else do it for you, that's what universities do, and that's what governments do.
DavidGraham
Veteran
I moderated -as a hobby- in two sites, one forum and two Facebook groups, combined, I spent a total of 6 years moderating. I passed on the torch to others after I got so busy with my career.
DavidGraham
Veteran
So from the standpoint of those of us who have more than a couple of decades of experience at numerous forums I'd call that "diddly squat". I have serious trouble believing you've had any serious moderation experience just by the manner in which you treat members and moderators.
Thats not the way to go man. Comon.... your talking to actual people behind these usernames.
I'm quite well aware of that and am actually restraining myself from expressing the depths of my feelings. Usernames are people to me, that's how I've known so many people for decades now.
D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
Stop being so self righteous. Just irritates me to no end.
D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
Some people need to realize nothing is going to be accomplished by remaining silent, and there is no point in having Mods feel uncomfortable moderating.
I've been looking at other forums and see similar "lively" discussions without much moderation, if any.
What would be nice is a special meme (emotican) that forum users could use to help moderate threads where postings are going the wrong direction.
It would be a way to give the poster a chance to recompose and either stop or change their approach without bothering the Mods.
I've been looking at other forums and see similar "lively" discussions without much moderation, if any.
What would be nice is a special meme (emotican) that forum users could use to help moderate threads where postings are going the wrong direction.
It would be a way to give the poster a chance to recompose and either stop or change their approach without bothering the Mods.
I just didnt expect that from you lol, im very surprised by that post. I have been managing forums since atleast 2004 (mostly scandinavian), never have i ran into so many accusations and attacks as here. It seems consoles are just never going to work out in technical forums.
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