Anand states that a lot of NV30 info around is inaccurate

[pascal]

What do you mean, we already act like hooligans, and the game hasn't even started.

Can you imagine next year?

My card is bigger than yours and have this Vibrator (tm) drivers capable to speed everything up to 200%

 

[Doomtrooper]

It is also possible that NVidia is using misdirection in their statements to confuse the competition. As Sun Tzu said, "When the trees move, the enemy is coming; when there are many blinds in the undergrowth, it is misdirection."

NVidia has publically made dismissive comments about a 256-bit bus as if to cause people to think that the NV30 won't have one. They have also said they focused more on computational efficiency rather than bandwidth efficiency this time. On the other hand, several NDAed people have said that the NV30 has a 256-bit bus. Why make dismissive comments about a 256 bit bus if they are implementing one?

Now we have NVidia several months ago saying "already taped out in May", and recently "just wrapping it up", so which is it? One motive for the conflicting signals is to confuse the PR/strategy departments of the competitors so that they can't have any PR response ready when NV30 finally launches, since they will have no idea of the actual specs and schedule. This prevents competitors from doing to NVidia what NVidia has done to competitors in the past, which is release a PR blitz on the launch date of a competitor's launch to try to steal some of their limelight.

In any case, I just don't see why G, D, and H are arguing so much about NVidia's schedule. If they get delayed by a few months, what's the big deal? It happened with GF3 and GF4. If they do make it on time, you'll just end up with egg on your face having wasted months arguing it couldn't be done.

Are you just secretly hoping with every once of your persona that NVidia fails? So you want no competition for the R300 this fall so ATI can overprice it?

You do realize that in one day possibly due to the CEO of Nvidia 'playing a rope a dope' scenario that the company was dismantled on the stock market..something a CEO is not supposed to do, not to mention it is illegal for a company to lie to its investors..two small points that would dismiss a 'rope a dope'.

The R300 is competing with a Geforce 4 Ti4600, DX9 is not even released yet so the DX9 card argument is simply BLAH
ATI must main competetive with the 4600, the Parhelia...I like to know where you get there is no competition....ATI and Nvidia are on completley different engineering cyles so we compare current cards available..not that hard to understand...

BTW I have only posted maybe four times on this subject...I have not beaten this subject to death, I'm simply stating reality.
Sure I'd like to see a Nv30 here but its not essential for price drops...to even compare Nvidia's pricing strategy to ATI's is a joke, historically on every release Nvidia has consistently been significantly higher (and that IS WITH competition).
This is the only time ATI flagship cards have ever been priced at the $399 US which is exactly the same price the Ti4600 was priced at...Nvidia has no problem sleeping at night with a $399 MRSP with a Ti4600...now lets look at the profit margin ATI is getting with a card that could be possibly 2-2.5 times faster than a Ti4600 in certain scenarios..

GPU

110 Miilion Transistors vs. 63 Million Transistors (same Die)

Bus

256 vs. 128

Looking at some websites a Ti4600 is still in the $380 dollar range US and some companies like Hercules etc will be priced less than the $399 US price...so for ATI to sell this card at the same price IMO is just fine

When Nvidia releases a flagship card in Canada where I LIVE that doesn't require a second mortgage (Ti4600's debuted here $700 for a Quality card) vs. the 8500 @ $389.00 I would certainly consider them.

 

[RussSchultz]

[Paraphrase="Doomtrooper"]

MY PENIS IS REALLY BIG!

[/paraphrase]

Could we stop this, please? Nobody wants this board to be about comparing companies, or worse yet waxing melodic about a particular company while tearing down another.


It is not an advocacy board. If you want that, go to the HardForums.

 

[Qroach]

Um, excuse me, who deleted my post? All I said was for doomtrooper to "pipe down". I really don't see the point in deleting my post when you leave up the offending posts.

 

[pascal]

Russ, type, Bjorn: Doom was replying Democoder post in an civil maner.

You guys are doing flames that can be much worst.
Please people dont get personel

Doom, please dont reply to flames.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Um, excuse me, who deleted my post? All I said was for doomtrooper to "pipe down". I really don't see the point in deleting my post when you leave up the offending posts.

What's 'offending' about it? If you don't like the post then don't respond to it - simple as that. Its the slew of meaninless crap that follows thats offending.

 

[Bjorn]

...it is not my fault that people don't like the truth

Yes, the truth as you see it ..

And, Dave, i agree that there's nothing offending in his post.
Although i think it's incorrect in a lot of ways.
First of all, can you buy the R9700 yet ?
And, the R9700 is superiour in every way compared to the GeForce 4 Ti 4600. So why would it force ATi to lower the price on the R9700 ?
It has no competition and i think we all can agree on that.
Yes, the price for the Ti4600 is still high. But a direct competitor ?
Imo, no.

Anyway, it was the post after that i didn't like.

 

[Qroach]

Interesting... i was talking about the posts after his large post. Well, it's not like I don't agree with you, so forget about it...

 

[Randell]

Of course an ATI card priced at $399 is overpriced compared to an nVidia card at $399. Doesn't everybody know that

FWIW any card over £250/$250 is overpriced to me.

 

[Doomtrooper]

...it is not my fault that people don't like the truth

Yes, the truth as you see it ..

And, Dave, i agree that there's nothing offending in his post.
Although i think it's incorrect in a lot of ways.
First of all, can you buy the R9700 yet ?

Anyway, it was the post after that i didn't like.

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=227386

Ships on 09/19/2002

You can buy it, but it won't ship until the 19th...BTW this is a 9700 Pro @325mhz

Ohh and for comparison...

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=216997

Verto GeForce4 Ti 4600 AGP

Same price @ $399.....now tell me where ATI is price gouging ??

 

[alexsok]

...it is not my fault that people don't like the truth

Yes, the truth as you see it ..

And, Dave, i agree that there's nothing offending in his post.
Although i think it's incorrect in a lot of ways.
First of all, can you buy the R9700 yet ?

Anyway, it was the post after that i didn't like.

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=227386

Ships on 09/19/2002

You can buy it, but it won't ship until the 19th...BTW this is a 9700 Pro @325mhz

Ohh and for comparison...

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=216997

Verto GeForce4 Ti 4600 AGP

Same price @ $399.....now tell me where ATI is price gouging ??

It won't ship till early September so I don't see what's the bid deal...

 

[Bjorn]

...it is not my fault that people don't like the truth

Yes, the truth as you see it ..

And, Dave, i agree that there's nothing offending in his post.
Although i think it's incorrect in a lot of ways.
First of all, can you buy the R9700 yet ?

Anyway, it was the post after that i didn't like.

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=227386

Ships on 09/19/2002

You can buy it, but it won't ship until the 19th...BTW this is a 9700 Pro @325mhz

Ohh and for comparison...

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=216997

Verto GeForce4 Ti 4600 AGP

Same price @ $399.....now tell me where ATI is price gouging ??

It won't ship until the 19th. Well, imo, you can't buy it until the 19th then.

Anyway, i don't think i have made any complaints about ATI overpricing their card.
And if Nvidia keeps the price on the GF4 ti 4600, then the R9700 will be bargain in comparision.

But i still think that 399$ is to much for a graphics card.

And, how about a answer regarding the competion thing:

Are the GeForce 4 Ti 4600 and R9700 competing against each other ?

Imo, no the R9700 is in a different league.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Bjorn I totally agree here, but if people are complaining about ATI pricing the 9700 to high..what about the Ti4600..Nvidia is the market leader and their pricing impacts where all others start.

I certainly would like to pay less for high end cards but looking at the complexity of the 9700 IMO its one of the 1st cards worth that $399.

 

[alexsok]

It won't ship until the 19th. Well, imo, you can't buy it until the 19th then.

Anyway, i don't think i have made any complaints about ATI overpricing their card.
And if Nvidia keeps the price on the GF4 ti 4600, then the R9700 will be bargain in comparision.

But i still think that 399$ is to much for a graphics card.

Nvidia are planning to introduce (this month?!) the NV28 & NV18 line of cards that are meant to replace the existing NV25 & NV17 line of cards.

Since the NV28 has a 23 million transistors advantage over the NV25 chip, I suppose AGP 8X, higher clock speeds on both the memory & core and other stuff is very much a possibility!

Now, if they release it sometime after R9700 is released and position it on a pricetag of say 300-350$, it might just have enough power to survive and bring Nvidia some cash till the NV30 arrives.

 

[Dave Baumann]

As much as I don't find the post offending I do agree that I don't really care for another thread comparing prices and availability etc! Please, lets look beyond....

 

[nAo]

PLEASE, everyone learn to quote!

 

[RussSchultz]

Sigh. The point is, I DON'T GIVE A FLYING "F" about who's price gouging, and it seems most of the people here don't either.

If its over priced, it won't sell. Simple as that.

The continued good vs. evil, ati vs. nvidia, us vs. them (i.e. penis waving matches) is just getting tiresome. Also, all these extraneous "charged" words being used in an otherwise normal discussion add to the tiresome aspect of these posts.

Please, anybody, if you get the desire to post about the moral heinosity of any company or product, please redirect yourself to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video.advocacy.

There's a perfect forum set up for all such discussions, and it isn't this one.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Imo, no the R9700 is in a different league.

Will the Nv30 be shipping on the 19th ?? If not why would the R300 not be competing with a Ti4600..
Two companies...two flagship products....

Looking at old reviews the 8500 endured the Geforce 3 refresh and the Geforce 4 and was used in direct comparisons..why is it different here.
This is ATI's new card after a year..compare whats available.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Yes - thank you! (Stop wasting my DB space! )

 

[Randell]

Oh I knew that was coming. (delete once read Dave)