AMD: Southern Islands (7*** series) Speculation/ Rumour Thread

Except that as CarstenS pointed out, low-voltage parts tend to draw more power, because they're leakier.


Roughly its like this:

high leakage = very good clock scaling with extreme cooling and usually good scaling on high end air or water cooling
retail cards have default low voltage to combat high leakage which equals heat
low leakage = average clock scaling (low max. clock card will sustain) but very good thermal properties
retail card will have higher default voltage

Now a lot of people think why low leakage have higher volts and not lower as high leakage. Simple answer is they would not work stable at lower voltages due to how transistors work.

High leakage transistors have shorter (smaller) gate. This allows faster switching speeds at a given voltage but introduces more leakage at a given manufacturing process.
Low leakage transistors have longer (thicker) gate. Opposite to above mentioned.

Process variation / tweaks / etc result in varied gate thickness and hence varied ASIC "quality".


Sorry for oversimplification and I welcome any corrections.

Example:
Record breaking Phenom II TWKR Edition was a product not qualified for sale in retail channel as it was out of spec. in regards to leakage. AMD sent these 'bad' samples to selected overclockers to use them with LN2 and LHe cooling. They were average clockers on AIR or Water due to excessive heat they generated (retail Phenoms clocked better) but given sub-zero temperatures this samples were best of the best at a time.
 
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Except that as CarstenS pointed out, low-voltage parts tend to draw more power, because they're leakier.

It's not so straightforward.

The asymptotic variation is low voltage -> high leakage.

Orthogonal to this is the natural statistical variation. The best parts have the lowest leakage, the highest clocks and run with lowest voltages.
 
High leakage transistors have shorter (smaller) gate. This allows faster switching speeds at a given voltage but introduces more leakage at a given manufacturing process.
Low leakage transistors have longer (thicker) gate.

Isn't it also a question of binning. Ie the high leakage chips HAVE to (be able to) run on a low voltage to qualify, while we simply don't see the high leakage+high voltage parts (for that SKU).
 
:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

The smell of new world records breaking- these 7970s are such beasts. :mrgreen:

http://hwbot.org/submission/2292984_hkepc_3dmark_vantage___performance_4x_radeon_hd_7970_84669_marks

http://hwbot.org/submission/2291746_t0lsty_3dmark03_radeon_hd_7970_213743_marks

http://hwbot.org/submission/2291982_t0lsty_3dmark11___performance_radeon_hd_7970_15759_marks

5po613.jpg


Have you noticed that you can purchase a 7970 for 420$, 7950 for as low as 340$, 7870 for 300$. ;)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...n=radeon 6870&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20
 
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theres been a deal last couple days, xfx 7950 for just $304 shipped from newegg after rebate (i assume dead now). 324 with 20 rebate, seemed to be a mistake on neweggs part but it was up for at least a solid couple days. fantastic deal.
 
At current price points the 7970 has no competition, it should be something else, the sound of responsibility and care to customers?

wat?

Competition is about getting faster and producing a better product, probably for the same money in this case but either way. Which is what AMD is doing, and I REALLY applaud their aggressiveness here.
 
You argument is flawed, considering a 294mm² die is cheaper to manufacture than a 365mm² die on the same process.

I don't believe anyone (Intel, AMD, NV) is using cost + margin to determine pricing anymore. It's all what the market will bear, which is to say relative value.

Look at introductory prices of 338mm2 Cypress and 389mm2 Cayman. Did TSMC really drop wafer prices? Were/are AMD not on a contract for 40nm pricing?
 
I don't believe anyone (Intel, AMD, NV) is using cost + margin to determine pricing anymore. It's all what the market will bear, which is to say relative value.
Sadly, this is the truth. The lack of competition this generation has led to bloated prices, and I won't be making a purchase of a GPU until performance per dollar actually increases meaningfully.
Look at introductory prices of 338mm2 Cypress and 389mm2 Cayman. Did TSMC really drop wafer prices? Were/are AMD not on a contract for 40nm pricing?
NV-Pres4.jpg


Prices do decrease over time, yes. I am unsure of how TSMC negotiates their pricing with AMD and Nvidia, but yields will always increase over time regardless of what price AMD and Nvidia pay. Remember how bad the 40nm process was initially? I'm sure after TSMC worked its issues out, it wasn't hard for AMD to launch a larger die at a similar ($10 less) price.
 
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Wait, guys, 40 nm might have been bad but I don't remember that Radeon 4770 pricing was too much affected.


It's not very polite from you but if you can't go deeper and understand the meaning...
You don't have to explain to me what competition is.
There was competition between the 7970 and 680 several weeks and months ago when their prices were one and the same. You know- even the simple fact that you already have released a top product, means that customers have a choice- automatically competition exists.
But at current price points the difference is so huge (you have dramatically improved performance via drivers too) that it's not worth it or even consider to buy anything else than the 7970. So, that's why there is no competition there any longer.
 
Wait, guys, 40 nm might have been bad but I don't remember that Radeon 4770 pricing was too much affected.



It's not very polite from you but if you can't go deeper and understand the meaning...
You don't have to explain to me what competition is.
There was competition between the 7970 and 680 several weeks and months ago when their prices were one and the same. You know- even the simple fact that you already have released a top product, means that customers have a choice- automatically competition exists.
But at current price points the difference is so huge (you have dramatically improved performance via drivers too) that it's not worth it or even consider to buy anything else than the 7970. So, that's why there is no competition there any longer.

Well to be fair the 4770 wasn't exactly the largest nor was it the most complex die they made. It was merely a pipe cleaner that served it's purpose to improve yields and help AMD/ATi acclimatize to the new process. Understandably there is no competition. Although I will say that the soon to be EOL'ed GTX580s are still holding good ground against a HD 7970.
 
VRzoneTV has been uploading some Radeon GHz edition videos showing the part of the games they benchmarked most likely.

So they are preparing for the review. Is the GHz edition's launch imminent?
 
100 FPS in Batman? Not bad.

I beleieve people who were OC their cards were getting that already. What the GHz Edition is doing is telling others what the OC headroom of the card is capable of. But it looks like it will do so this time using lower power consumption and may provide higher OCs. But I'll reserve performance and power consumption results until the reviews are released.
 
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