AMD: Navi Speculation, Rumours and Discussion [2019-2020]

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DegustatoR said:
Shader based means algorithm based here. Compute shaders are shaders too. This is different from ML / neural network approach which doesn't have a clearly defined algorithm and "dream up" the results from training.
And while you're right that you can run anything on general SIMDs - even DLSS can be run there - an upscaling solution without performance benefits would be completely pointless.
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The first DLSS implementation in Control did not use the tensor cores by the way.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-control-dlss-2-dot-zero-analysis

Of course, this isn't the first DLSS implementation we've seen in Control. The game shipped with a decent enough rendition of the technology that didn't actually use the machine learning Tensor core component of the Nvidia Turing architecture, relying on the standard CUDA cores instead. It still provided a huge performance boost, and generally looked better the higher up the resolution chain you went, but the new 2.0 revision offers a profound improvement.
 
I was thinking...it would really make 0 sense if this was absolutely top end Navi. Makes no sense to show all your cards (around 3080 or a bit slower) 20 days before actual conference, it completely ruins any sort of anticipation. Imagine 28th comes and they go "Yea, what we showed you 20 days ago is right in line with what we have. Best Navi 2 GPU is 280W card that is ~3% slower then 3080".

80CU Halo Navi 2 and Big Navi 2 72CU version is what I bet on. Best Navi 2 to beat 3080 by few percent, slower one to fall few percentages back. Not long now anyway...
 
What actually makes no sense is them showing numbers which are below or on par with 3080 as this won't stop anyone who's shopping for a new GPU from getting (well, trying to at least) a 3080 right now.

So why did they show these numbers if they could've shown something faster than 3080 which would essentially mean "wait, don't buy that card, we have a better one coming in a month"? What was the message here?
 
If AMD had a chip that was better than anything Nvidia has, they would be shouting it from the roof tops while their competitor has a massive supply issue. It literally makes no sense to keep it a secret for a specific announcement when thousands of people have preorders but no cards right now. As usual when it comes to tech, people buy into the hype

Kopite already gave it away. Its gonna be 3080 performance for less money
 
SimBy said:
I hope it's not the highest SKU, it will make things more interesting.
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Same, it could well be though. For BL3 it's almost exactly double the 5700xt. But for Gears 5 it's quite a bit under (would expect 88fps).

If this is their binned 3080 competitor, looks fine, whatever. But if it's top end then it doesn't look like the leaks of 80cu/2.2ghz clockspeed were at all correct.
 
Kaotik said:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3585090/amd-radeon-rx-6000-big-navi-performance-tease-rtx-3080.html

No idea if this has any meaning, but apparently during pre-briefing call
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I'm hoping for jebait with 2nd tier SKU but I'm not holding my breath since this is pretty much what I expected. If this is around 275W like some leaks suggest it's a pretty humongous leap for AMD considering how far behind they were just couple of gens ago. In pretty much every metric. And also 256 bit bus WTF?!
 
DegustatoR said:
What actually makes no sense is them showing numbers which are below or on par with 3080 as this won't stop anyone who's shopping for a new GPU from getting (well, trying to at least) a 3080 right now.

So why did they show these numbers if they could've shown something faster than 3080 which would essentially mean "wait, don't buy that card, we have a better one coming in a month"? What was the message here?
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3080s is sold out be it slower or faster then Navi 2 (as is every good chip in 7/8nm on planet earth). They will sell out no matter what AMD showed today. If AMD showed 30% faster performances it would still be sold out for next month or two. Makes very little sense to show best they got, 20 days before official conference, and then show it again by saying "yea we are few % slower then 3080 as we told you beginning of a month".
Jubei said:
If AMD had a chip that was better than anything Nvidia has, they would be shouting it from the roof tops while their competitor has a massive supply issue. It literally makes no sense to keep it a secret for a specific announcement when thousands of people have preorders but no cards right now. As usual when it comes to tech, people buy into the hype

Kopite already gave it away. Its gonna be 3080 performance for less money
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If they said "We have 5% better GPU then 3080" you think 3080s would not be sold out? It was paper launch, it would be sold out with 20% lower performance. This is issue for all manufacturers and probably one of the reasons why Zen 3 is that much more expensive. They will sell them out in a minute.
 
Frenetic Pony said:
But for Gears 5 it's quite a bit under (would expect 88fps).
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Shockingly, width scaling never leads to perfectly linear performance gains. This has only happened always between VSA-100 and now.

AbsoluteBeginner said:
3080s is sold out be it slower or faster then Navi 2 (as is every good chip in 7/8nm on planet earth). They will sell out no matter what AMD showed today. If AMD showed 30% faster performances it would still be sold out for next month or two. Makes very little sense to show best they got, 20 days before official conference, and then show it again by saying "yea we are few % slower then 3080 as we told you beginning of a month".
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3080s are sold out because people want it more than anything else. They want it more than anything else because they are dead sure that there won't be anything better anytime soon. It makes the perfect sense to show now the best they've got.
These three numbers aren't even a scratch on what I want to know about RDNA2 so they'll have more than enough to show on 28th regardless.
 
DegustatoR said:
Shockingly, width scaling never leads to perfectly linear performance gains. This has only happened always between VSA-100 and now.


3080s are sold out because people want it more than anything else. They want it more than anything else because they are dead sure that there won't be anything better anytime soon. It makes the perfect sense to show now the best they've got.
These three numbers aren't even a scratch on what I want to know about RDNA2 so they'll have more than enough to show on 28th regardless.
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My point is, both will sell out well into 2021 so there is a room for marketing fun and games. 3080 benefited from good PR and price nosedive from overpriced Turing series, which in many peoples eyes was good enough for upgrade even if AMD shouted from rooftops "WE GOT 5% BETTER GPU". Wouldn't matter. 3080 is amazing performer for much better price then Turing with all Nvidias bells and whistles so in any case AMD is in a bit of a tough spot.

BTW I think even being ~5% of Nvidias best while using less power and costing less is big, big deal. If it wasn't for DLSS and some few bits Nvidia has, it would probably be winner in most peoples eyes. Also, we don't know 1440p performance where Ampere is not exactly pulling away as it is in 4K. Interesting month ahead certainly...
 
AbsoluteBeginner said:
If they said "We have 5% better GPU then 3080" you think 3080s would not be sold out? It was paper launch, it would be sold out with 20% lower performance. This is issue for all manufacturers and probably one of the reasons why Zen 3 is that much more expensive. They will sell them out in a minute.
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Uh yes? Why would someone keep a preorder for a card that is 2-3 months away if they can get 90-95% of the same performance for less money in a few weeks? And paper launch or not, the demand for these cards are still there. If 30% less performance from 3080 would still mean tens of thousands back orders in stores everywhere then you are basically saying AMD is dead in the gpu business.

Zen 3 is pricier because AMD has built up momentum and mindshare and it would be stupid not to increase their margins. It has nothing to do with availability
 
DegustatoR said:
Cause it's more CPU limited there. There's a pretty obvious reason why they've shown 4K performance and not 1440p, don't you think?
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I have no idea how much memory bandwidth plays a role at 4K and 1440p but if it does and if this thing really comes with a mere 256bit interface you might actually see it pull ahead at lower res.
 
DegustatoR said:
What actually makes no sense is them showing numbers which are below or on par with 3080 as this won't stop anyone who's shopping for a new GPU from getting (well, trying to at least) a 3080 right now.

So why did they show these numbers if they could've shown something faster than 3080 which would essentially mean "wait, don't buy that card, we have a better one coming in a month"? What was the message here?
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I don't think there was really a 'message', but rather, I suspect they still want to keep things under wraps to not give nVidia too much time to react. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Big Navi is released on the same day as the CPUs.
 
NightAntilli said:
I don't think there was really a 'message', but rather, I suspect they still want to keep things under wraps to not give nVidia too much time to react. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Big Navi is released on the same day as the CPUs.
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There is nothing NV is able to do to "react" at this point, they've already played all of their cards between $500 and $1500 for this gen. There is zero reason to keep anything under wraps because of NV at this point. NV's next high end update will happen no sooner than in a year from now. (Well, there will be 16 and 20 GB cards but I hardly consider them an "update" even, more like a way to kill your perf/price to make some people happy.)
 
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