AMD Mantle API [updating]

[Arwin]

Cross my fingers that either Nvidia releases a Mantle equivalent or Microsoft pull their finger out and roll Mantle like efficiencies into a new version of DX that is compatible with Windows 7 (lol). In either case I'd be a winner but if neither happens I've lost nothing the way I see it (as Albuquerque and Brad are arguing above).

Same goes for TrueAudio.

I must admit though that given the tradeoff of Lightboost/3DVision 2 + G-Sync or TrueAudio + Mantle, I'd still go with the Nvidia option. My love of stereoscopic 3D gaming must be well known by now

What if a Mantle version allowed S3D at a higher frame rate than the regular D3D version?

The validity of Mantle will depend a lot on the actual gains. If there is an 80% or more improvement to be gained relatively easily, I think that gives food for thought regarding the price of the current abstraction layers.

 

[3dilettante]

If Mantle provides a way of bypassing a chunk of the Windows driver model, it might allow features to be more readily usable independent of any possible split related to demarcations in Windows releases. The DirectX discontinuity between XP and Vista had a negative impact, and maybe Mantle can influence future iterations of the standard to reduce the chance of it happening again.

 

[pjbliverpool]

slide n. 13: pc challenges. How to solves it? By a proprietary solution that benefits one of the pc hardware vendor, and by saying that it would be extremely bad if other IHV's tried to pursue their own IHV-specific graphics API. ( )

It solves it for AMD owners and encourages Microsoft to solve it for all graphics vendors. How is that not a step forwards?

Besides, I think there's a difference between all IHV's producing their own API's (including all the mobile players) and the only two desktop performance IHV's producing their own.

You could argue that Intel may need to produce it's own API as well but since they're not a serious player in the high end PC gaming scene I think it's unlikely they would see the need or that developers would support it if they did.

 

[xDxD]

It solves it for AMD owners and encourages Microsoft to solve it for all graphics vendors. How is that not a step forwards?

cut

hey, developers never speak with MS?? (In that slides, exactly in the n.11, DICE is proud about the fact that microsoft listen to their hints).

My friend, mantle is simply a commercial gimmick to try to sell more AMD hw, there is nothing wrong with that, but enough with the hypocrisy.

I see no advantage now for the PC gaming in general, perhaps tomorrow it could push Microsoft to improve the dx, but it is an indirect effect, not the main.

 

[Albuquerque]

I have not read in this thread, I think, why or how mantle will bring benefit to the PC gaming in general.

There's no point to this question, it's the same answer as the benefits of PhysX, Cuda, and 3DVision, Similarly, what are the benefits of a 750, 760, 770, 780, and a Titan? I mean, one is obviously faster than the rest and thusly supports more eyecandy at the same time. What is the benefit again?

The general benefit is choice: you get to choose what is most meaningful to you, and spend your money accordingly. Imagine if, rather than having choices, you instead had all the same options and everything was the same?

Boring.

 

[jimbo75]

slide n. 13: pc challenges. How to solves it? By a proprietary solution that benefits one of the pc hardware vendor, and by saying that it would be extremely bad if other IHV's tried to pursue their own IHV-specific graphics API. ( )

Slide 15 - "We've been talking to the graphics vendors for years to solve this..."

Nvidia were asked, they didn't deliver. That's an Nvidia problem and nobody elses.

 

[Malo]

If Mantle provides a way of bypassing a chunk of the Windows driver model, it might allow features to be more readily usable independent of any possible split related to demarcations in Windows releases. The DirectX discontinuity between XP and Vista had a negative impact, and maybe Mantle can influence future iterations of the standard to reduce the chance of it happening again.

Yes this is something I assume Mantle will help with as well. Didn't MS do it again with DX11.1(2?) only being supported on Windows 8 (WDDM 1.3?)

 

[Dave Baumann]

The DirectX discontinuity between XP and Vista had a negative impact, and maybe Mantle can influence future iterations of the standard to reduce the chance of it happening again.

Bear in mind that the very latest iteration of DX functionality is only exposed in Windows 8.1 as well.

 

[xDxD]

Slide 15 - "We've been talking to the graphics vendors for years to solve this..."

Nvidia were asked, they didn't deliver. That's an Nvidia problem and nobody elses.

this does not change anything in my speech, not the stuff of fanboys here, if today were nvidia in partnership with DICE (or anyone else) to launch its own API, I'd do the same considerations. And speaking of fanboys, I can only see how AMD's ones suddenly become advocates and lovers of industry standards, in spite of the open ones.

 

[pjbliverpool]

What if a Mantle version allowed S3D at a higher frame rate than the regular D3D version?

That's more a question of HD3D at 2x speed or 3D vision at 1x speed and in that instance I'd still go 3DVision for it's compatibility, ease of use and light boost. That's not to say a 2x speed boost wouldn't be awesome. Probably a bit over optimistic for Mantle though!

 

[pjbliverpool]

this does not change anything in my speech, not the stuff of fanboys here, if today were nvidia in partnership with DICE (or anyone else) to launch its own API, I'd do the same considerations. And speaking of fanboys, I can only see how AMD's ones suddenly become advocates and lovers of industry standards, in spite of the open ones.

So what is your opinion of G-Sync?

 

[pjbliverpool]

If Mantle provides a way of bypassing a chunk of the Windows driver model, it might allow features to be more readily usable independent of any possible split related to demarcations in Windows releases. The DirectX discontinuity between XP and Vista had a negative impact, and maybe Mantle can influence future iterations of the standard to reduce the chance of it happening again.

I hope so. There's very little that would convince me to move to Windows 8 but a Mantle-like DX12 would be one of them - it would be nice not to be forced though. Having said that, by the time we get that we'll probably be on Windows 10 which might actually be a genuine step up from Windows 7.

 

[Xmas]

Consoles is not a valid comparison here obviously. There is no competition or alternatives.

Sure there's competition. There are different consoles, and consoles also compete with PCs and mobile platforms for the gamers' (and developers') attention.

 

[xDxD]

So what is your opinion of G-Sync?

A commercial gimmick similar to that of mantle, in some respects, very different from a substantive point of view.

 

[Albuquerque]

Sure there's competition. There are different consoles, and consoles also compete with PCs and mobile platforms for the gamers' (and developers') attention.

No, not in that sense.

The argument in this thread is competing API's on the same platform. There is "competing API" on a console platform -- it's a console, and that's that.

 

[Albuquerque]

A commercial gimmick similar to that of mantle, in some respects, very different from a substantive point of view.

You obviously do not understand gsync, because it's a very radical departure from the "norm" and a much needed one. It is far, far from a gimmick.

 

[pjbliverpool]

A commercial gimmick similar to that of mantle, in some respects, very different from a substantive point of view.

So Mantle, G-Sync, TXAA, TrueAudio, Adaptive vsync, PhysX, Lightboost, HBAO+ etc... the PC industry would be better off without any of these technologies in your opinion?

 

[xDxD]

So Mantle, G-Sync, TXAA, TrueAudio, Adaptive vsync, PhysX, Lightboost, HBAO+ etc... the PC industry would be better off without any of these technologies in your opinion?

i think mantle is the only thing in this list which can have a negative impact on the gaming pc, for example i found a feature like tressfx very nice when I played in TR on my 7950, but of course I can not compare to a whole set of APIs. And please, i said let's stop to pass it as something that will benefit the entire world of gaming pc.

 

[xDxD]

You obviously do not understand gsync, because it's a very radical departure from the "norm" and a much needed one. It is far, far from a gimmick.

I think the question tended to find out if I were an nvidia fanboy

 

[pjbliverpool]

i think mantle is the only thing in this list which can have a negative impact on the gaming pc, for example i found a feature like tressfx very nice when I played in TR on my 7950, but of course I can not compare to a whole set of APIs. And please, i said let's stop to pass it as something that will benefit the entire world of gaming pc.

How is Mantle going to negatively impact Nvidia (or Intel) gamers? And how is this worse than how PhysX impacts AMD users?