AMD and Samsung Announce Strategic Partnership in Mobile IP

Discussion in 'Mobile Graphics Architectures and IP' started by del42sa, Jun 3, 2019.

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  1. entity279

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    Well one plausible explanation for the cloak and dagger wording in the anouncement would be trying to not get sued by QC . (as @Gubbi helpfully hinted at)

    If as per Anand piece, Samsung has been working on a GPU for 7 years.. It's very hard to believe that Samsung would have thrown all that work away (unless ofc they are going through a heavy corporate restructuring).
     
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  2. Bondrewd

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    The current one was like their 3rd try.
     
  3. Nebuchadnezzar

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    That's a stupid comparison. You're comparing delivered RTL to actual architecture/microarchitecture development. AMD isn't delivering RTL to Samsung, it's an architecture license.
     
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  4. anexanhume

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    They could make a play for future Nintendo hardware too.
     
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  5. ToTTenTranz

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    You're 100% sure AMD isn't selling a semi-custom GPU block for Samsung to use in a future SoC, akin to ARM selling Mali blocks?
     
  6. Nebuchadnezzar

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    Yes. Seems I have to speak more bluntly: I've had confirmation it's an actual architecture license, hence why I said it looks to be like how Apple is using IMG's license.

    AMD wouldn't have had the resources to develop their own mobile targeted GPU on their own. It's Samsung's responsibility to implement it into a working GPU microarchitecture, and it appears that's what they've been doing for 2-3 years.
     
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  7. Frenetic Pony

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    Nor would AMD have had the desire to do so, Imagination was the only big, independent GPU licensor in the mobile industry and look what happened to them. Everything else is ARM or vertically integrated.

    Still... I mean good for AMD one supposes. More revenue, without a huge amount of risk. I wonder what this GPU will look like, and whether it might even fall under Navi arch at all.
     
  8. Jawed

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    I suppose this means there should be a mobile RDNA thread.

    If it's a tiler and leans heavily on primitive shading that makes it good for mobile?...
     
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  9. BRiT

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    Well at least we have confirmation of who knows stuff and who just wants to argue to argue...
     
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  10. itsmydamnation

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    Do you know much much of a mobile architecture is delivered by AMD for Samsung to modify/implement or is it a case of here are all the IP blocks as AMD have designed them for AMD targets and do with them what you wish?
     
  11. Nebuchadnezzar

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    It's architectural license to modify/implement for mobile.

    It increasingly looks like this is indeed a new deal and SGPU might have been halted, some are saying patent issues with Nvidia.
     
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  12. Silent_Buddha

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    One other thing to consider is Microsoft's increased interest in Windows on ARM with Samsung as a key partner. Having GPU IP that's already used in Windows might make driver development easier and help with the work of Windows on ARM as well as making sure the GPU feature levels are up to date.

    While the wording is specifically for mobile, I believe some of the chips that Microsoft is using for Windows on ARM are Samsung mobile chips.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  13. Entropy

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    This will be interesting to see play out in mobile space alone, but if Windows on ARM gains a stronger foothold, comparisons against both Qualcomm and x86 offerings will be intriguing. Implementation is everything of course, but Samsung has some serious engineering and foundry muscle, if they choose to apply it.
     
  14. CarstenS

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    Wouldn't an architecture license not also cover at least some patent issues, Samsung had in the past with Nvidia? Maybe their mini-cross license was about to expire and Samsung wanted to cover their own GPU-IP?
     
  15. Nebuchadnezzar

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    Yes it would. Essentially this is AMD giving access to their patents via an architectural license.

    Some Koreans are saying Nvidia didn't want Samsung to make their own GPU because they wanted Samsung to license from them.

    The thing is that this indeed looks like going forward with AMD instead of their SGPU. Samsung's GPU VP seems to have quit following the events, so the thing stinks a bit.
     
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  16. Kaotik

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    There were rumors in 2016 that Samsung was looking to license AMD gfx IP. The old Polaris/Vega/Navi-roadmap already had "Scalability" marked for Navi. How far reaching would it be to think that the rumors were in fact real and things were already happening in the background back then and that "Scalability" was referring to Samsung making mobile GPU based on Navi?
     
  17. Nebuchadnezzar

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    There's some pointers from Samsung's existing GPU people that what they were working on wasn't AMD related. The whole thing is thoroughly confusing especially since they had a very large GPU hiring spree in the first half of 2018.
     
  18. ToTTenTranz

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    Ok thanks for the clarification.


    Do you know if the deal includes AMD being able to use Samsung's research on ULP GPUs for their own advantage, say for a 5-15W APU down the road to tackle Intel's Y series?


    Makes sense...


    So isn't that different from what apple is currently doing with IMG?
    At least from a marketing perspective, it looks like Samsung will have to use AMD's branding (RDNA, Radeon) whereas Apple dropped PowerVR altogether.
     
  19. Nebuchadnezzar

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    That's the big question, absolutely no idea but I don't see why they wouldn't be able to.

    Apple didn't drop PowerVR, it's still very much a TBDR with PVRTC.
     
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  20. ToTTenTranz

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    I said from a marketing perspective. Apple dropped the PowerVR brand name, Samsung will seemingly have to call their iGPU a Radeon that uses RDNA.

    This definitely makes a huge difference in brand value boost between IMG's and AMD's case, for what could be essentially a similar deal in IP licensing.
    AMD's stock soared after they announced the deal. IMG's stock collapsed by 60% when apple announced they weren't "using" PowerVR anymore.
     
    #40 ToTTenTranz, Jun 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
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