A comparison of PS3 and 360 as media players

[Arwin]

That's just speaking for the fact we need a better way to distribute HD movies than a need for optical media. For example, if there were some sort of DRM that would allow you to purchase and load a digital copy of a movie at a retail location (target, 7-11, gas station, whatever) onto a USB storage device. Transfer it to whatever device at home (media set top device, computer, etc.). The DRM license would allow for reloading that movie at whatever location in the future should you delete it at home. That's assuming you don't have broadband without caps where you could just download it at home.

Would save millions or billions of tons of waste used in producing optical media as well as all those discs gathering dust. There'd be an upswing in flash devices or hard drives, but since those would be reuseable, it wouldn't generate nearly as much waste.

Regards,
SB

Maybe true, but even right now copying 50GB of data takes a lot longer than grabbing one disc off the shelf, paying, and then going home. Right now I still consider it more likely that streaming will eventually reach the quality we need, and then we'll start seeing discs slowly disappear.

 

[patsu]

In the future ? Some Blu-ray discs already use organic dye for recording. If your needs are not so long term (e.g., Transferring large amount of data within like 200 hours of constant read/write), then it may be suitable. If your needs are for archiving, then regular Blu-ray discs will last much longer (up to 50 years, according to Panasonic). A Blu-ray disc also takes 10+ times less CO2 emission to make compared to a DVD. Blu-ray uses AVC-HD file structure, the BDA can also make AVC-HD available to other media if necessary.

Server-based media will need constant supply of power to upkeep. It will have its own environmental problems. And we know no matter how big the hard disk is, we usually find ways to fill it up, and buy more ! ^_^



For Flash-based kiosks or better yet, TransferJet kiosks, it means the user has to carry a device with enough space to download the desired media. It's not always the case -- unless you want to delete files to make space at the kiosk (It may become a security risk). That impulse to rent/buy will be gone by then. And you're still subjected to stricter DRMs today. They should just fix the DRM first.

 

[patsu]

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/04/hulu-plus-available-on-ps3-without-playstation-plus-next-week/

The PlayStation Plus requirement for the PS3 Hulu Plus app will go away next week, allowing all PSN users to download the app. And you'll be able to use that app, since Hulu just made it so that you no longer have to be invited to subscribe to the $9.99/month service. The Hulu Plus service remains in "preview" while the company works to add more features and more devices -- like new Sony Bravia TVs, which Sony also announced.

The app you'll be able to download next week, according to Hulu, "incorporates some of the feedback we've received to date" from users of the (already nice) app that's been available through PlayStation Plus since July.

 

[eastmen]

In the future ? Some Blu-ray discs already use organic dye for recording. If your needs are not so long term (e.g., Transferring large amount of data within like 200 hours of constant read/write), then it may be suitable. If your needs are for archiving, then regular Blu-ray discs will last much longer (up to 50 years, according to Panasonic). A Blu-ray disc also takes 10+ times less CO2 emission to make compared to a DVD. Blu-ray uses AVC-HD file structure, the BDA can also make AVC-HD available to other media if necessary.

Server-based media will need constant supply of power to upkeep. It will have its own environmental problems. And we know no matter how big the hard disk is, we usually find ways to fill it up, and buy more ! ^_^



For Flash-based Kiosks or better yet, TransferJet kiosks, it means the user has to carry a device with enough space to download the desired media. It's not always the case -- unless you want to delete files to make space at the kiosk (It may become a security risk). That impulse to rent/buy will be gone by then. And you're still subjected to stricter DRMs today. They should just fix the DRM first.

Bluray has a finite life though. Storage space is becoming cheaper and cheaper with 2 TBs costing less than $100 all the time. Cpu/gpu's are getting faster and faster and so compression will continue to get better.

its only a matter of time before we move to another format. The real question is , how long will bluray last and will the next format be disc based or use some form of downloadable content.

I can personaly see the push for 3D failing hard and tv makers trying to move us to 4k tvs t oget more people to buy new tvs. With that blurays at 50 gigs will not be enough. I think we will see them either go holographic or towards DD for the data and i think it will happen this decade.

 

[patsu]

Offline and online media serve different purposes. 3D will go to online and offline media. It's not a Blu-ray exclusive feature.

As a consortium, BDA can evolve Blu-ray to keep up with times if they want to -- just like we have USB 1, 2, 3, so on and so forth.
BD-Live (Blu-ray 2.0), Blu-ray 3D, BDXL are all added after launch.

 

[-tkf-]

Bluray has a finite life though. Storage space is becoming cheaper and cheaper with 2 TBs costing less than $100 all the time. Cpu/gpu's are getting faster and faster and so compression will continue to get better.

its only a matter of time before we move to another format. The real question is , how long will bluray last and will the next format be disc based or use some form of downloadable content.

I can personaly see the push for 3D failing hard and tv makers trying to move us to 4k tvs t oget more people to buy new tvs. With that blurays at 50 gigs will not be enough. I think we will see them either go holographic or towards DD for the data and i think it will happen this decade.

Hey this is fun, we are having the same discussion for the 20th time!

Blu-Ray will die, at some point, the interesting question and the one worth discussing is, will there be a new Optical format, or is this it?

There is no way in hell that streaming is going to be the norm soonish, the platforms are to diverse, they are all over the place and if you buy a movie from one content provider you can´t move it to another. It´s a dead end, it´s stupid, it´s useless in the long run.

Is rental via streaming going to kill "Blockbusters", not just in the US but in the whole world? Oh yes, way sooner than Blu-Ray is going to die. But again, this will only be in the select regions where it´s even possible to stream content and then grow slowly from there.

The Optical disc is here to stay for a very long time

And 3D is going to be a bonus for it, at least if the content is there. 3D movies just needs to keep the quality high and worth the investment, then it will be worth investing in. And i personally find the Blu-Ray 3D to be way better than the 3D i see in a movie theater.

 

[eastmen]

Offline and online media serve different purposes. 3D will go to online and offline media. It's not a Blu-ray exclusive feature.

As a consortium, BDA can evolve Blu-ray to keep up with times if they want to -- just like we have USB 1, 2, 3, so on and so forth.
BD-Live (Blu-ray 2.0), Blu-ray 3D, BDXL are all added after launch.

I don't know how well it will work making people rebuy hardware when they get a new tv. so if 4k does come out this decade i think we will see a new optical format. perhaps hvd .

mabye we will get another format war. that will be fun

 

[patsu]

4K display needs to penetrate the theater market first. ^_^ It's being used by the professionals to master content (Probably relevant to BDXL, and other on-going multi-layer Blu-ray work).

For home TV, there are a lot of different directions to go besides resolution increase: stereoscopic 3D, auto-stereoscopic 3D, IPTV, interactive TV, GoogleTV, etc.
They need to solve basic network infrastructure issues first before leaping to 4K. DD is going to suffer more.

When consumers buy a new TV, it's easier to upsell or bundle a new player to show off their new hardware. Some TVs come with Blu-ray player + streaming players.

 

[Nesh]

Bluray has a finite life though. Storage space is becoming cheaper and cheaper with 2 TBs costing less than $100 all the time. Cpu/gpu's are getting faster and faster and so compression will continue to get better.

its only a matter of time before we move to another format. The real question is , how long will bluray last and will the next format be disc based or use some form of downloadable content.

I can personaly see the push for 3D failing hard and tv makers trying to move us to 4k tvs t oget more people to buy new tvs. With that blurays at 50 gigs will not be enough. I think we will see them either go holographic or towards DD for the data and i think it will happen this decade.

Better compression should actually give more life to Blu Ray as better compression means less storage needed to store a given amount of data

 

[rabidrabbit]

I doubt online will be the no.1 content provider for decades.
There are too many homes that don't have fast internet access in the livingroom, and it's too much of a hassle to set up a fast wireless or install wires.
It's easier to just buy a box where a physical media is inserted, the barrier of a setting up a system for online media will be the major reason it won't be as widely adopted as physical media.

 

[-tkf-]

4K display needs to penetrate the theater market first. ^_^ It's being used by the professionals to master content (Probably relevant to BDXL, and other on-going multi-layer Blu-ray work).

For home TV, there are a lot of different directions to go besides resolution increase: stereoscopic 3D, auto-stereoscopic 3D, IPTV, interactive TV, GoogleTV, etc.
They need to solve basic network infrastructure issues first before leaping to 4K. DD is going to suffer more.

When consumers buy a new TV, it's easier to upsell or bundle a new player to show off their new hardware. Some TVs come with Blu-ray player + streaming players.

4K displays is one thing, another thing is having movies shot in a resolution where we would actually benefit from 4K

4K @ 60HZ would be fantastic AND worth a new optical format...

 

[joker454]

I can't imagine 4k ever taking off in homes unless 100+ inch displays become the norm. I wouldn't be surprised if blu-ray is the last optical movie format we see.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Especially considering it can go to at least 200GBs. That'll be enough for 1080p60 movies if only someone would have the sense to make them!

 

[Arwin]

Especially considering it can go to at least 200GBs. That'll be enough for 1080p60 movies if only someone would have the sense to make them!

But I want 120fps for 3D movies!

 

[patsu]

I don't know why people want to limit themselves to online media so much. I personally prefer "anywhere" media where I can get stuff online and offline where appropriate, especially if the media can be folded like paper, and is organic ! Here's hoping...

 

[patsu]

Here's a pretty good wrap-up of Blu-con 2010:
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/new...ray/High-Def_Digest_Attends_Blu-Con_2010/5755

Further, catalogue or library titles sales grew 60 percent -- this is particularly good for Blu-ray fans because it means the studios are seeing dollar signs and we reap the benefits by finally getting our favorites in the format. Sales of stand alone Blu-ray disc players are outpacing Sony's PlayStation 3 (stand alone player sales are important because those owners typically buy more movies than game console owners). What's staggering in this economy is that homes with one Blu-ray player have doubled since 2008 to 21 million.
This means Blu-ray officially has a 20 percent adoption rate in the US, and when that number hits 25 percent (perhaps this Christmas or early next year), Blu-ray will officially be Mainstream in the eyes of the number crunchers who decide such things.

[sorry I don't have the exact figures, International Readers, but know this: Europe Blu-ray disc sales are kicking ass, and Blu-ray Player sales in Japan are easily outpacing DVD players]

What all these statistics mean is that our family and friends are finally getting it. They see the value in the extra picture quality and they're still interested in "collecting" which puts a smile on the face of any home entertainment executive. The studios themselves seem better connected, and as a result, are doing a better job. Blu-ray releases brim with bonus materials and the flexibility of including a DVD and/or digital release. Yes, there are problems -- firmware, user experiences, networking and compatibility issues, the speed of evolution preventing 'future proofing' -- and these all need addressing. But the players themselves are faster now, easier to use for the average consumer, and are becoming gateway media machines. They're almost becoming DVD-easy and DVD-simple, which has long been a barrier.

After lauding Blu-ray's achievements, the studio presidents opened up the conversation to discuss the 28-day rental windows, streaming and piracy. Apparently, the 28 days number came out of the legal agreement they made back in the days when RedBox was sueing everyone. These windows (and rental only versions of Blu-rays) will remain in place because they promote sales. The studios said they're seeing anywhere from a 7 percent to 15 percent sales increase (based on comparative titles who did not sell with a window). It seems we consumers have a choice: ownership / premium rental (such as VOD, see below) with convenience and privilege, or subscription / $1-a-night Red Boxing for savings on a longer timeline.

…

The studios are also heavily invested in Video On Demand (VOD). They make good money, and will have more day-and-date releases. As for streaming, Netflix will remain a place for generally older titles (Starz being an exception because it's actually related to a Pay TV distribution window), but the studios are open to changing this relationship if favorable deal structures can be found.

James Cameron on Avatar 3D:
http://3dradar.techradar.com/3d-tech/cameron-avatar-cgi-was-bigger-3d-me-03-11-2010

"It's funny that the press has latched on to the 3D thing for Avatar. In a way 3D was the least of Avatar for me. I had already done 3D for 10 years and created the technology six years ago.

"We spent two years in R&D to develop the facial capture for Avatar, the CGI. For me this was the big thing."

…


As for expanding 3D, Cameron believes that the lack of technology is the problem at the moment.

"The biggest limitation is that we don't have enough cameras. And once we get past the last threshold – autostereoscopic – then it will be how we watch everything.

"But at the moment 3D will be with glasses for the next five years."

 

[Squilliam]

I can't imagine 4k ever taking off in homes unless 100+ inch displays become the norm. I wouldn't be surprised if blu-ray is the last optical movie format we see.

When modular displays come out it'll certainly be possible. Take for instance a standard 30 inch panel with one you have a 30' screen with 4 you have a 60' screen with 9 you have a 90' screen and so on and so forth. It'd be cheaper for manufacturers to make just a couple of panel sizes and it'd be far easier to ship.

 

[patsu]

Gah… why brute force the resolution ? Go holographic display ^_^

I don't know if higher and higher resolution will excite consumers to buy in the future.

In the mean time, I hope they explore the software aspect of Blu-ray more. It's the first storage media with a standardized software stack. They should enforce certain performance standards to guarantee good user experience.

 

[eastmen]

Better compression should actually give more life to Blu Ray as better compression means less storage needed to store a given amount of data

did a fine job at expanding dvd's life cycle.

better compression + faster internet speed can easily bring about a shorter life span for blu ray. Also better compression normaly requires more powerfull hardware.

 

[-tkf-]

did a fine job at expanding dvd's life cycle.

better compression + faster internet speed can easily bring about a shorter life span for blu ray. Also better compression normaly requires more powerfull hardware.

Uhh? From the get go there were good quality encodes on DVD, but yes, a lot was learned during the DVD life time, much of which is now taken for granted. And that knowhow was injected directly into the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray encoding pipeline (from master to file).

DVD´s was old the moment the first HD-DVD´s was released, they didn´t live long thanks to better encodes.

The life span for Blu-Ray is not easily shortend by better compression and faster download speeds. If you want it to die fast you need to give the whole world, and not just the USA and Europe XX mbit downlinks, with NO transfer limit. And when that is done, then you have to convince the customers that it´s just as good to buy a movie online as it is to buy a physical disc. That includes a system that is 100% free from being bound to a certain provider or hardware manufacturer. You seem to ignore this point over and over again? Would you invest what essentially could be 1000´s of dollars into a movie collection without being 100% sure it was yours?

Blu-Ray rentals, sure but VOD has been going on for 10-15 years? it´s just on more platforms now than ever, and easier (for some) than ever. And the quality sux, as always, but that was never the point of VOD