A comparison of PS3 and 360 as media players

[Arwin]

"Heavy Rain" and "God of War 3". Its particularly bad with Heavy Rain`s FBI investigation scene, but you can adjust the gamma there as workaround (talking about gamma at default).

I've played both of those demoes (though not the final games), and I think I see what you mean. Don't you think though that it is basically the default gamma that hasn't been properly set in the demo versus the final game? Both of these games have a very big development window between the creation of the demo and the release of the final game (particularly God of War 3).

 

[Npl]

I've played both of those demoes (though not the final games), and I think I see what you mean. Don't you think though that it is basically the default gamma that hasn't been properly set in the demo versus the final game? Both of these games have a very big development window between the creation of the demo and the release of the final game (particularly God of War 3).

Well, the Heavy Rains investigation scene is practically all-black with a couple reflective stripes walking around. Cant imagine that beeing right, and I dint mean compared to the final games as I dont have them.
But I only played it on a "limited" TV and cant compare the output to "full-range", as my PS3 aint even at my home ATM I cant directly test before the end of the week.
So while I cant vouch for the demos (Im pretty sure its the same issue as they look just like when I played a game with Full-Range enabled), for me the real issue is the AVI-playback and that I can attest to be non-corrected.

 

[Arwin]

Well, the Heavy Rains investigation scene is practically all-black with a couple reflective stripes walking around. Cant imagine that beeing right, and I dint mean compared to the final games as I dont have them.
But I only played it on a "limited" TV and cant compare the output to "full-range", as my PS3 aint even at my home ATM I cant directly test before the end of the week.
So while I cant vouch for the demos (Im pretty sure its the same issue as they look just like when I played a game with Full-Range enabled), for me the real issue is the AVI-playback and that I can attest to be non-corrected.

Is it possible that the AVIs are source-optimised for computer screens? (which are 0-255)

 

[Npl]

Is it possible that the AVIs are source-optimised for computer screens? (which are 0-255)

Indeed they are. Still they look correct on a full range screen, are wrong on a limited range screen and flipping the option in the PS3-system does nothing.
Shouldnt they look the same (either bad or correct) on both screens if the range-correction worked?

 

[Arwin]

Indeed they are. Still they look correct on a full range screen, are wrong on a limited range screen and flipping the option in the PS3-system does nothing.
Shouldnt they look the same (either bad or correct) on both screens if the range-correction worked?

I think not necessarily. It could in these cases assume limited range source material (as is typically broadcast to TV) and do nothing by default, but upscale this when Full RGB is enabled. But the AVI could be of material that is actually 0-255 in source as you say, and in this case you'd have a case where you need to be able to either manage full-rgb settings during AVI playback as well (which makes sense), or have the PS3 switch automatically if it can read from the source file what range is being used.

I think this could be the cause of the problem for you and in that case I understand, at least for the AVIs, how this problem could occur and that you could indeed blame it on the PS3. Could be an interesting topic for Digital Foundry to investigate.

 

[Npl]

I think this could be the cause of the problem for you and in that case I understand, at least for the AVIs, how this problem could occur and that you could indeed blame it on the PS3. Could be an interesting topic for Digital Foundry to investigate.

Its not only AVI, but likely all formats supported by the PS3 (except DVD/BluRay). If theres any logical reason behind handling AVI`s the way its done now I`d like to hear it, the output should be unaffected by the technical details of the Screen (well - as in intended to be displayed similar within the constraints).
And btw, I think the vast majority of AVI`s use the full PC-Range.

I`ll do some more testing especially with demos at the end of the week.

 

[Rolf N]

Its not "left up to the games", I wasnt implying that. I meant the game is required to correct the range (by Sony), but it aint done automatically - ie. the developer has to add code for it. AFAIR its similar with scaling as some of the first games failed to output 1080i - only the games who addressed this directly had no problem.
If the PS3OS would do it automatically, then the "Full Range" switch wouldnt leave out some demos and AVI-playback.

I wouldn't compare these two. Writing a gamma ramp is fire-and-forget. It will affect everything out of the back of the console until you overwrite it again.
Scaling OTOH is a recurring process for every output frame.

 

[Arwin]

I`ll do some more testing especially with demos at the end of the week.

Ok. It's interesting anyway, maybe you're right and developers do need to provide two different settings for games, to make the most of supporting both color ranges. I've notifed grandmaster, perhaps it's a good subject for a feature and some investigation by DF.

 

[grandmaster]

Yes I know about that and naturally I dont have it enabled. But it doesnt affect all features, I used a Full-Range Monitor before so I can say what looks similar and what doesnt.
DVD/Bluray playback is (range-)corrected and so are games, but alteast some demos (Heavy Rain and GOW) arent and playback of media-files (AVI,MP4,etc) certainly isnt aswell. It seems like every game/app needs to read the setting and adjust the output for itself - its nothing the OS does transparently, and demos apparently arent checked as thoroughly as games.

There arent options for adjusting AVI-playback, certainly nothing affecting brightness or even better mapping between full->limited range.

Bearing in mind that the selection of Limited/Full only came about in firmware 1.8 or thereabouts, and that it definitely works with launch games I've tried (RR7, Resistance to name two that I tested), it's clearly an OS level thing.

If I have time I will look into the games you've mentioned.

 

[Npl]

Sorry guys I was wrong - the option certainly affects the demos and likely videos aswell, even if I`m not really able to tell a difference in case of the videos.
Should`ve kept quiet till I tested this more, my PS3 currently rests at my parents home and the old TFT there really aint a good one. Probably someone messed this up even more with trying to calibrate or resetting to absolutely horrible default.

 

[patsu]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/blinkbox-film-and-tv-streaming-comes-to-ps3

Film and TV-streaming company Blinkbox is to bring a specially designed version of its service to the PlayStation 3, it has been revealed.

The service will allow UK users to download a selection of films from 99p each and TV dramas such as Gossip Girls and Heroes for around 39p. Films can also be bought to keep from £2.99.

 

[Tahiri]

Its not "left up to the games", I wasnt implying that. I meant the game is required to correct the range (by Sony)

Saying "the game is required to correct the range" = "it's left up to the game".

Which isnt possible since the setting works on games that came out before the setting

 

[patsu]

http://www.cnet.com.au/sony-announc...ice-through-playstation-network-339303234.htm

Much like its announcement in the US in 2008, Sony has announced an Australian PlayStation Network movie service, the Video Store, less than 48 hours before it is set to go live.

At 1AM AEST on Thursday morning, PSN users will find a new icon in their XMB interface, where they will be able to rent or purchase both standard- and high-definition movies to watch on their PS3 and up to three PSPs per account. Sony said that the average SD file size is around 1.5GB at a resolution of 526p; HD is 5GB at 720p. However, Avatar in SD had a file size of 2.8GB, and we saw file sizes of up to 7.2GB for HD.

Sony says that 600 films will be available at launch, with a further 50 being added every month. The company is optimistic, claiming that the service has been enormously successful since its launch in the UK six months ago.

...

[pricing info]

[size=-2]Where's my PlayTV ? [/size]

 

[patsu]

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010...eu.playstation.com)&utm_content=Google+Reader

Well, we are MUBI and we are basically transforming your PS3 console into your own online cinema. (You can still play games and all that, don’t worry!) We couldn’t resist the idea of everyone having their own exquisite film library—And that’s it in a nutshell.

But lets get this straight, we are not just an online cinema and we are not just some tech and film geeks in California—well, some of us are, yes—but we are 300,000 friends talking, discovering, and sharing films with one another every day. In fact, every 2 minutes there’s someone joining us. Yes. 2 minutes. Sorry to get a bit geeky (we warned you!), but that’s 700 people joining each day. Not bad… but joining what?

...

 

[patsu]

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/05/19/torne_update/

Sony will be giving its PlayStation 3 digital tuner and DVR kit Torne a major update this June. The update will take the device to version 2.0.

Long Recording
The update adds a long recording mode that lets you record HD footage for three times as long compared to the current standard DR Mode. This mode uses AVC compression.

Watch While Recording
You can now watch a program while it is recording. The feature is compatible with forward, rewind and scene search.

Improved Torumiru Information Display
The interface will now display viewer stat information directly atop the television menu.

 

[habbe]

Long recording ?.

Usually the dvr just puts the bitstream on the drive, does this mean that ps3 will reencode it to AVC ?.

 

[patsu]

Sounds like it but I'm not sure. The original Japanese text is here:
http://www.jp.playstation.com/info/release/nr_20100519_torne_v200.html

●録画モードに「3倍モード」を追加
録画モードに、従来の「DRモード」に比べ約3倍長く高画質で録画できる「3倍モード」を追
加します。

「3倍モード」で録画する際は、AVC方式で録画されます。ゲームやブルーレイディス
ク/DVDを楽しみながら、予約設定した番組を「DRモード」に加え「3倍モード」でも録画す
ることが可能です※4。これまでと同様、録画された映像は、映画、スポーツ、アニメなど、
映像ジャンル毎に最適化されたアップコンバート機能とノイズリダクションにより、美しく
再現されます。

※4同時録画機能を有効にしている場合に限ります。同時に使用するソフトウェアや周辺機器の仕様によっては正常に動作しない可能性があります。また、60GBモデル（CECHA00）および20GBモデル（CECHB00）で「プレイステーション ２」専用ソフトウェアをご使用中は、本機能の設定を有効にしていても、録画は行われません。

 

[jonabbey]

What does the PS3 DVR solution look like in these markets? Is it only a DVR when the PS3 is not running a game? I can't imagine there being much use in a DVR that stops recording when you're playing a game..

If it designed to work while games are running, it can't be doing much more than just streaming the MPEG-2 data to the hard drive..

 

[patsu]

In the existing PlayTV/Torune, one can record while playing games. The priority will be given to the active game. The PlayTV app will dump the video stream to HDD straight.

My guess and reading is that the AVC option may interfere or not work with the active application/game (case by case). It cannot run together with PS2 b/c software on 60Gb and 20Gb PS3.

However, my Japanese is limited. Someone else should be able to do a better job.

 

[shido808]

It looks like the Japanese text is stating that you can record while playing games or watching blu-ray/dvd with both the standard recording feature and the new long record feature. Recording while playing PS2 games on BC hardware is the only thing not supported.

The text also confirms that it'll be re-encoding the video with AVC to achieve the longer record times.