A comparison of PS3 and 360 as media players

[patsu]

Microsoft submitted VC-1 to SMPTE for standardization. I haven't heard MS adding more functionality to it, so I guess it will stay there in its current form.

MVC-AVC was created by multiple organizations as part of the H.264 standard. I think it's been around for a few years:
http://www.img.lx.it.pt/pcs2007/presentations/Vetro-PCS07-Plenary.pdf

 

[patsu]

HDMI 1.3 and 3D Blu-ray

http://dvice.com/archives/2009/12/no-new-blu-ray.php

All devices with HDMI 1.3 and an upgrade connection method — Blu-ray Live decks (including PS3), satellite receivers and cable set-top boxes — can be upgraded to output 3D.

...

Unfortunately, you'll still need a new HDMI 1.4-enabled 3D HDTV to see the 3D effect. It's necessary because those HDTVs have dual-scanning capabilities: They can display near-simultaneous frames, one for each eye, to create the 3D illusion. Current HDTVs are only single-scan.

And you won't get full 1080p 3D via an upgraded HDMI 1.3 box, either — just half or quarter resolution, depending on the source. HDMI 1.3 isn't powerful enough to stream near-simultaneous 1080p frames. From a full 1080p source such as Blu-ray or a satellite receiver, you'll instead get dual 1080i images to create 3D; from a cable box, you'll get dual 540i images. I've been told the difference between full 1080p 3D and 540i 3D is essentially the difference between Blu-ray and DVD, which for most people is not that big of a difference. I still think you'll want at least a 65-inch 3D HDTV, though, to really get an immersive 3D experience.

If you've got a non-BD Live player, you're SOL. But for everyone who just bought a Blu-ray Live player, breathe easier — you just saved yourself around $400 and you're halfway to viewing Avatar at home next spring

 

[manux]

All devices with HDMI 1.3 and an upgrade connection method — Blu-ray Live decks (including PS3), satellite receivers and cable set-top boxes — can be upgraded to output 3D.

...

Unfortunately, you'll still need a new HDMI 1.4-enabled 3D HDTV to see the 3D effect. It's necessary because those HDTVs have dual-scanning capabilities: They can display near-simultaneous frames, one for each eye, to create the 3D illusion. Current HDTVs are only single-scan.

And you won't get full 1080p 3D via an upgraded HDMI 1.3 box, either — just half or quarter resolution, depending on the source. HDMI 1.3 isn't powerful enough to stream near-simultaneous 1080p frames. From a full 1080p source such as Blu-ray or a satellite receiver, you'll instead get dual 1080i images to create 3D; from a cable box, you'll get dual 540i images. I've been told the difference between full 1080p 3D and 540i 3D is essentially the difference between Blu-ray and DVD, which for most people is not that big of a difference. I still think you'll want at least a 65-inch 3D HDTV, though, to really get an immersive 3D experience.

If you've got a non-BD Live player, you're SOL. But for everyone who just bought a Blu-ray Live player, breathe easier — you just saved yourself around $400 and you're halfway to viewing Avatar at home next spring

I think there is some jumping to conclusions in that quote that might not be true.

First of all, it's not enough to output the 3d image, you also need the decoding power to decode dual streams. This might be fairly impossible on standalone players having hardwired decoders.

And the second conclusion about interlacing halving the resolution, it might not be the case. HDMI1.3 supports 1080p60(and even higher) which should have enough bandwidth to transfer 3d inside 1080p60 stream(2d blu-ray is 1080p24). Or another choice would be to have 1080p50 which would contain2*1080p24 + 2 empty frames for padding. I think the author of the quote got confused as blu-ray only supports 1080i60 which is not the same as the limitation in hdmi link itself. Doesn't ps3 already show some content on 1080p60 or is it always 1080i60 on 1080p displays?

The only case where the halving resolution would be happening is if 3d blu-ray would contain 1080p24 stream that needs to be outputted as 1080i60. This might be part where sony can differentiate it's tv's combined with ps3(i.e. full resolution 3d with sony television, half resolution with others).

 

[obonicus]

Didn't grandmaster do some tests with 1080p60?

 

[i_am_interested]

I think there is some jumping to conclusions in that quote that might not be true.

First of all, it's not enough to output the 3d image, you also need the decoding power to decode dual streams. This might be fairly impossible on standalone players having hardwired decoders.

And the second conclusion about interlacing halving the resolution, it might not be the case. HDMI1.3 supports 1080p60(and even higher) which should have enough bandwidth to transfer 3d inside 1080p60 stream(2d blu-ray is 1080p24). Or another choice would be to have 1080p50 which would contain2*1080p24 + 2 empty frames for padding. I think the author of the quote got confused as blu-ray only supports 1080i60 which is not the same as the limitation in hdmi link itself. Doesn't ps3 already show some content on 1080p60 or is it always 1080i60 on 1080p displays?

The only case where the halving resolution would be happening is if 3d blu-ray would contain 1080p24 stream that needs to be outputted as 1080i60. This might be part where sony can differentiate it's tv's combined with ps3(i.e. full resolution 3d with sony television, half resolution with others).

i also dont see the big confusion over hdmi 1.4 for 3d right now

i assume that movies that use 3d, specifically animated movies, are produced at 24 frames/sec, so it seems like if you just double that for each eye (48), then hdmi 1.3 which allows 1080p at 60fps

movies are where all of the big commotion of 3d is going to be and it seems like hdmi 1.3 is fine

it seems like all the confusion should be over 1080p games that currently run at 60 fps which would need to run at 120, but this only applies to the ps3

and yes i am new to this forum
Mod : Welcome aboard. Please make use of your shift key!

 

[patsu]

I did some surfing after posting that article. Not sure about the Sony differentiator part, but I believe you are correct on both points manux. I don't think any BD-Live standalone player today is guaranteed to play 3D movies. And we may or may not need to half the resolution to play 3D movies on the PS3.

 

[patsu]

Decided to post it here since we have remote control discussion in this thread: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/n900-turned-into-ps3-controller-courtesy-of-bluemaemo-emulator/

BlueMaemo enables Nokia N900 to control PS3:

Available via the Extras-Devel repository on your N900, this app allows the device to mimic other Bluetooth gadgets, such as keyboards, mice, and yes indeedy, gaming controllers. Its developer Valério Domingos humbly points out that the purpose of connecting up to a PS3 is purely for menu navigation and easier text input...

 

[patsu]

Sony, Panasonic introduce Blu-ray discs with 33.4GB layers

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/21103.cfm

Panasonic and Sony have introduced the new i-MLSE (Maximum Likelihood Sequence Estimation) method this week, increasing the per-layer storage capacity of Blu-ray discs from the current 25GB to 33.4GB.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So this is a software upgrade to the reading system of BRD, which adds 50% to capacity? 33.4GB should be good for those few games who aren't fitting onto a single layer BRD who wouldn't have to go to dual-layer. Will it also allow for better quality BRD movies with lower compression? Or will it just be even more useless stuff on the disks?

 

[Arwin]

So this is a software upgrade to the reading system of BRD, which adds 50% to capacity? 33.4GB should be good for those few games who aren't fitting onto a single layer BRD who wouldn't have to go to dual-layer. Will it also allow for better quality BRD movies with lower compression? Or will it just be even more useless stuff on the disks?

More like 33% ... anyway, isn't the answer very short, starting with a number and ending with a letter?

 

[patsu]

Actually, I am waiting for them to bundle game and movie together. Or at least some sort of *real* game demo (The actual game itself, not some stripped down mess -- plus an order/pre-order button or even the entire game on disc).

 

[Nesh]

Decided to post it here since we have remote control discussion in this thread: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/n900-turned-into-ps3-controller-courtesy-of-bluemaemo-emulator/

BlueMaemo enables Nokia N900 to control PS3:

What kind of Bluetooth devices can communicate with the PS3?

I tried to make my PS3 recognize my mobile phone once but it couldnt.

 

[patsu]

What do you mean by "what kind" ?

I have paired my PS3 with a Bluetooth keyboard and 2 headsets so far.

 

[Nesh]

What do you mean by "what kind" ?

I have paired my PS3 with a Bluetooth keyboard and 2 headsets so far.

My PS3 can not find my mobile phone.

Also the bluetooth keyboard and mouse I tried to make it find were not found unless I plugged in their Bluetooth USB device with the PS3

 

[patsu]

I think you need to set it up on the PS3 side. The PS3 may see the devices but you need to explicitly allow the device to connect to the PS3. Beside each device, there is a black dot that will go blue when you allow it.

[size=-2]Going to the beach now. Happy new year, everyone ![/size]

 

[-tkf-]

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/21103.cfm

More space is good, especially with the future 3D movies eating up 50% more storage...

 

[patsu]

Slightly more techie info about i-MLSE:
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HONSHI/20091222/178809/

EDIT: And 3D TV programming coming soon...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/espn-3d-launches-in-june-with-world-cup-soccer-our-football-t/

 

[patsu]

Blu-TV: New BD-Live application/service from CES 2010:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/blu-tv-brings-interactive-iptv-to-disc-players-starting-with-th/

Dreamer has finally found a partner in its Blu-ray powered IPTV fantasy now that Blu-TV has debuted on the OPPO BDP-83. As the company envisions it, once loaded, it turns your BD-Live capable Blu-ray player into a video and interactive content gateway anyone can develop apps for once the SDK is released. Already powering an IPTV service in Korea, we got a quick demo of the software running on a PS3 in Dreamer's CES booth and flipped through a quick selection of online marketplaces, simple games and video services. We're not sure how many manufacturers will warm to the idea of opening up players currently limited to their choice of streaming services, but if the apps start to flow, having this as an embedded option could be a differentiating feature as player prices dive.

EDIT: Another one:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/01/10/hands-on-with-bd-remote-the-sony-iphoneipod-touch-remote-app/

One of the most overlooked announcements by Sony at CES 2010 was the new iPhone/iPod Touch application called “BD Remote” that will be compatible with all 2010 Sony Networked Blu-ray Players. Sony mixed things up by making their Blu-ray remotes Bluetooth, and Sony will also offer an additional Wi-Fi Blu-ray remote control application for iPhone and iPod Touch devices on the App Store. It should be available very soon

 

[Arwin]

Ah, I was just thinking about what happened to the thing that was being developed last year to control the PS3 with an iPhone/iPod ... so looks like we're getting something official instead. Neat!

 

[rabidrabbit]

The app has been on iPhone app store for some time already, but I haven't been able to pair it with PS3, don't know if it works with any BR player yet.