4K displays announced at CES 2011

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jeff_rigby, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. DuckThor Evil

    DuckThor Evil Anas platyrhynchos
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    5,878
    Likes Received:
    897
    Location:
    Finland
    I'm pretty sure he(she?) meant 720p games aren't rare.
     
  2. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,525
    Likes Received:
    15,980
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Ah, yes, you're right. My bad. 720p is a quite ordinary resolution. Shame 60fps isn't a normal speed!
     
  3. chavvdarrr

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    34
    Location:
    Sofia, BG
    Jesus, last time I used monitor with 768 lines it was 14" IBM CRT.
    Yet 10+ years later, getting monitor able to represent perfectly any resolution between 800x600 and 1920x1200 is next to impossible.
    Thats what I call "progress"
     
  4. I.S.T.

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    3,174
    Likes Received:
    389
    That is one hell of a shame. :(

    And it's she.
     
  5. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,801
    Likes Received:
    2,175
    Location:
    La-la land
    Yeah. Give me 60fps or give me death!

    Actually, I'd prefer 120fps. :cool: We don't really need higher res, we need more fluid framerates and better texture filtering and antiailiasing.

    What we in particular DON'T need is higher res at the cost of better texture filtering and antialiasing....
     
  6. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    17,044
    Likes Received:
    6,339
    Well, perhaps not for gaming but IBM had a 22" monitor capable of 3840x2400 resolution almost a decade ago. :) Absolutely beautiful at that screen size, but pixel response was atrocious. :p

    So graphics cards can drive that resolution. Whether you get playable frame rates will depend on cost of video card (or cards), game used, and how much you wish to reduce game IQ settings.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  7. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,858
    Likes Received:
    3,060
    well eyefinity uses some coding magic to say to the driver this isnt 6 displays its a single display with a res of 5760x3200 so if it didnt work with a 4k display i'm sure it could be easily made to

    Davros is guessing alphawolf would also like some pie
     
  8. Karoshi

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Mars
    Davros, his point was about the maximum single port resolution supported by the display outputs.
    I checked the wikipedia entry for displayport but it was a mess. Under some versions/bandwidths it can support at least 2k displays.
    Maybe Dave can clear the issue, what version of DP and what top bandwidth are supported by the DP output drivers?
     
  9. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    17,044
    Likes Received:
    6,339
    It's going to be purely a matter of bandwidth. DP 1.2 has max bandwidth of 17.28 Gb/s. That would allow 3840x2160x30 bpp @ 60 Hz with CVT-R timings (16.00 Gb/s).

    As an interesting sidenote, HDMI 1.4 has far less bandwidth and would require dropping back to 30 Hz or 24 Hz at that resolution. HDMI 1.4a doesn't bump up available bandwidth and thus would also be limited in that respect.

    As such I'm not sure PS3 could even display video at "4k" resolution unless all source material was at 24 Hz.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  10. corduroygt

    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,390
    Likes Received:
    0
    For the common living room TV sizes and viewing distances, going beyond 1080p does not make a visible difference. Hell, a lot of people wouldn't even notice the difference between 720p and 1080p in a typical living room environment. 4k is only for those with front projection setups with huge screens, and I'd expect 4k projectors to be much more popular than 4k TV's. They're still both very small niches though.
     
  11. aaronspink

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,641
    Likes Received:
    64
    As already mentioned, this was a solved problem in the first half of the decade. Only thing I can't remember is if it was 2 DL or 4 SL cables to drive the IBM panel. Was supported in numerous cards (ATI, Nvidia, etc).
     
  12. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Location:
    Treading Water
    I'm not sure I would call that problem solved. They made a workaround, is that the expected solution going forward?
     
  13. xatnys

    Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    2
    The PS3's HDMI interface may have that kind of bandwidth, but I doubt the PS3 itself will have the decoding power necessary for 4k.
     
  14. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,858
    Likes Received:
    3,060
    4k would reduce aliasing though
     
  15. xatnys

    Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes... I suppose the analogy is overenthusiastic, but I had the opportunity to see Samsung's own quad-hd display back in CES2008 and the source material they showed made it seem literally like looking out of a window. And that was only slightly less than 4K.

    The sad thing is, even though they say this caliber of devices will be available as early as this year, much much more needs to happen before their usage becomes practical.
     
  16. aaronspink

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,641
    Likes Received:
    64
    The biggest issue is content and content distribution. 4K is a lot larger than HD and as youtube has so generously shown, you can do it, if you are willing to compress that crap out of it so it looks worse than 480P!

    Realistically, you are looking at in the min range of 45-65 Mb/s AVC streams to maintain quality which is a lot heftier that is reasonably possible right now. And double that for 3D.
     
  17. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    17,044
    Likes Received:
    6,339
    As mentioned, it's purely a matter of bandwidth.

    And both DP 1.2 (60 Hz) and HDMI 1.4a (24 Hz) are supported at 4k resolution.

    HDMI will need a revision to boost bandwidth in order to support 60 Hz content.

    And as to that 3840x2400 display back in 2001, it originally used a Matrox card with dual specialized outputs. A revision a year later used either 4 single link DVI (960x2400 stripes or later 1920x1200 quads) or 2 dual link DVI (1920x2400 stripes). Necessary since no connector could provide the bandwidth required for that resolution of video. And since the DVI consortium was disbanded in 1999, there weren't going to be any updates to the DVI standard.

    So, if a company decided it wanted to do it, they could easily release a 4k panel that worked via 2x Dual Link DVI.

    I wouldn't consider any of those solutions workarounds. It's all a matter of bandwidth, how you achieve that bandwidth is somewhat irrelevant, IMO. And as aaronspink mentioned, it was video card agnostic. It didn't matter what video card was used, all it required from a video card were either 4 single link DVI or 2 dual link DVI. So a person can rightfully say that 4k resolution has been supported by all PC video cards since 2002 that had 4x single link DVI or 2x dual link DVI ports.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  18. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Location:
    Treading Water
    That's pretty much the definition of a workaround. Making something work within the confines of existing limitations. I certainly wouldn't want to have to use multiple outputs on my receiver to support my TV. And which devices will support this output and how, and are you going to put 48 HDMI ports on a TV so it can accept inputs from multiples devices to meet the required bandwidth

    Call it supported if you want, but if there's no standard existing to support the required bandwidth there's a problem going forward.

    I'm sure by the time these things are actually ready for a retail market (say in 5 years) we'll see some actual support.
     
  19. Gubbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,586
    Likes Received:
    981
    My bet is that it will take much longer than that.

    There is zero content for 4K displays, and there wont be for the immidiate future. Next gen console will struggle to do stereoscopic 1920x1080. Every single TV production company in the world just transitioned to 720P/1080i. A lot of money has been invested in production equipment and infrastructure.

    4K will suffer the same fate as IMAX, a few boutique production companies will make content for a niche market,.

    Cheers
     
  20. Simon F

    Simon F Tea maker
    Moderator Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    157
    Location:
    In the Island of Sodor, where the steam trains lie
    Also, given that NHK & BBC are working on "Super Hi Vision" which is 16x the resolution of HD (8k*4k res), maybe 4K will just be a backwater.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...