3rd-gen Heatsink for PS3 Unveiled

[rendezvous]

Tech on writes that Furukawa Electric Co Ltd unveiled a desgin for new PS3 heatsinks during ehibition in 16-18 april in Japan this year.

Especially, the shift from the second generation to the third was drastic. In the first and second-generation products, a large heat sink cooled both the Cell and RSX. But they are cooled by separate heat sinks in the third-generation product.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080424/150927/

There is small piture on the other side of that link.

 

[nico1982]

It seems to me that the third generation design is the very same one as that already employed in 40GB units. Too bad, I was hoping for some clues about an upcoming slim

 

[Npl]

Hope that means 65nm RSX is finally coming. the article says power-savings are a modest 20-30 Watts over the current 40GB modell, dunno if that fits a 90->65nm shrink... i expected a bit more like 50 aWatt

 

[Carl B]

Hope that means 65nm RSX is finally coming. the article says power-savings are a modest 20-30 Watts over the current 40GB modell, dunno if that fits a 90->65nm shrink... i expected a bit more like 50 aWatt

C'mon now, what do you think the RSX is consuming to begin with? I think a 20-30 watt reduction based primarily on that shrink alone would be more than admirable.

@nico1982: You'd have to wait until at least 45nm to realistically expect a console shrink.

 

[Npl]

C'mon now, what do you think the RSX is consuming to begin with? I think a 20-30 watt reduction based primarily on that shrink alone would be more than admirable.

First, I dont know how much I realistically should expect for the RSX die shrink alone, I`d have expected powerdraw around 40W-50W down from 80-90Watt (as my 65nm 8600GT is ~45Watt, and I believe reading that 90nm RSX draws ~80-90 Watt). Add other possible improvements and I thought 50Watt less would be realistic.

 

[Pete]

An entire 7900GT (RAM and all) draws less than 50W, so I'm not sure how a 50W savings from just a die shrink (RAM unchanged) is possible.

 

[BRiT]

The decided to ignore the laws of physics and thermal dynamics.

 

[Akumajou]

It seems to me that the third generation design is the very same one as that already employed in 40GB units. Too bad, I was hoping for some clues about an upcoming slim

Keep in mind that this is a "Third generation heatsink design" for a console that is about to become two years old in November 2008, that is some hell of a research and development progress.

Also, although someone mentioned 45nm would be the target for a console shrink, keep in mind that these new consoles have so many transistors and so many more capabilities than what was introduced in the last generation of consoles, heat output and power comsumption went to never before seen levels I personally feel that a realistic if possible die shrink of 32nm would enable a slim console for either party.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Also keep in mind the PS2 shrink occurred four years after launch, PSOne launched 5 years later. Other console shrinks like the Master System happened years after launch. It'd be premature to expect any talk of shrinkage from these more complex and far hotter machines without a suitable chance for technology to progress, which is also slower now as gains from process shrinks are diminishing. If there is going to be a unit shrink, it'll have to be a smaller reduction than we're used to.

 

[thambos]

Does this mean we'll be seeing a new PS3 version in a couple months w/ a 65nm RSX too?

I've been looking into the history of PS2 revisions & it's 3rd revision (not counting the original Japanese prototype which didn't include a DVD drive) had everything unified into one board, except the power supply. The earlier ones had several interconnected printed circuit boards.

I'm pretty sure the PS3 has had a unified circuit board since it's launch; so maybe they'll be focusing more on component replacement/consolidation along w/ the RSX moving to 65nm. I couldn't find much information about the EE & GS die shrinkages; so I don't know how the timeline compares. It might also be accelerated this time because of the relationship of the hardware with other companies who are also shrinking it.

Thoughts?

 

[Carl B]

Does this mean we'll be seeing a new PS3 version in a couple months w/ a 65nm RSX too?

A 65nm RSX is already on the horizon, so yes. But in terms of the thread topic, the third-generation heat sink is the one included in the present 40GB system. Whether they would introduce an even newer heatsink, or stick with this version through until 45nm (since it seems fairly simple/low-cost at this point), is anyone's guess.

I've been looking into the history of PS2 revisions & it's 3rd revision (not counting the original Japanese prototype which didn't include a DVD drive) had everything unified into one board, except the power supply. The earlier ones had several interconnected printed circuit boards.

The PS3 has been a single board from the start, but the board itself has shrunk in size/complexity as time has gone on. You can catch all the action here: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=45069&highlight=40GB

(Don't bump that thread though!)

I'm pretty sure the PS3 has had a unified circuit board since it's launch; so maybe they'll be focusing more on component replacement/consolidation along w/ the RSX moving to 65nm. I couldn't find much information about the EE & GS die shrinkages; so I don't know how the timeline compares. It might also be accelerated this time because of the relationship of the hardware with other companies who are also shrinking it.

You have it backwards on this, die shrinks these days are much harder, and Sony working with other companies doesn't mean much of anything in terms of when they occur. Remember that for our purposes, Sony's fab situation is the same as it has always been: Sony/Toshiba making the chips. IBM will re-enter the picture at 45nm on Cell, hopefully sooner rather than later.

One of my favorite charts, and I think I post it about twice a year, but here's the PS2 die shrink history:

 

[geeQ]

A 65nm RSX is already on the horizon, so yes. But in terms of the thread topic, the third-generation heat sink is the one included in the present 40GB system. Whether they would introduce an even newer heatsink, or stick with this version through until 45nm (since it seems fairly simple/low-cost at this point), is anyone's guess.

Not sure if that is correct. I think the 40GB PS3's are currently using the 2nd generation heatsink/fan design. The 3rd generation design outlined in that article does not appear to have a fan at all, just 2 heatsink blocks. I would think this new design is earmarked for the upcoming 65nm Cell + 65nm RSX PS3 update.

 

[nico1982]

Not sure if that is correct. I think the 40GB PS3's are currently using the 2nd generation heatsink/fan design. The 3rd generation design outlined in that article does not appear to have a fan at all, just 2 heatsink blocks. I would think this new design is earmarked for the upcoming 65nm Cell + 65nm RSX PS3 update.

There are pictures in the link posted by CarlB. One of them shows the 40GB cooling system: two discrete heatsinks and the fan, housed in a black plastic frame.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Isn't it only some 40 GBs, like the Japanese white ones? The conventional EU 40 GBs are the Mark II's, nit the more simplified Mark IIIs.

 

[Carl B]

Well, it's definitely the Japanese ones, that's for sure... but seeing as they're the same IC's across all systems, I'd be curious as to why the EU and US ones would remain on the more expensive design when they don't have to. I guess one theory would be that they're not the same IC's, and perhaps some Cells originate from IBM, some from Nagasaki, or a different run from one or both had different thermal properties.

I think the question we were all wondering upon the introduction of the Japanese 40GB unit though was just, why does it have a different motherboard layout to the Western versions? Shouldn't there be benefit to a unified line? A lot of the answers can be had just from overlaying the inventory/supply situation on these components, but since we don't have that information it's educated guessing. Still, I would imagine that as time goes on they consolidate the Western units around the further cost cutting measures that have occurred in the Japanese units... if they haven't already.

 

[geeQ]

There are pictures in the link posted by CarlB. One of them shows the 40GB cooling system: two discrete heatsinks and the fan, housed in a black plastic frame.

Thanks for the link and description Nico, and apologies to CarlB you are quite right, was not aware that an alternative Japanese PS3 model existed. And indeed from the images at nico's link it definitely looks like the 3rd gen heatsink is in use alright.

Once RSX is at 65nm as well does anybody think Sony might be able to ditch the fan altogether? This 3rd gen design certainly looks quite modular in that the fan and it's housing could be discarded with no problems, leaving just the heatsinks.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't imagine so. PS2 didn't lose the fan until several process shrinks resulting in a huge reduction in die size, 1/6th the original. A halving of total area and the associated thermal output shouldn't be enough to get from 'running hot and needing a big fan pushing warm air out the back' to 'cool enough that passive cooling will work'. I expect we'll be lucky to get fanless at 45nm, given how gains from process shrinks aren't as impressive as they were with older technology.

 

[holsty101]

A 65nm RSX is already on the horizon ...

Do you think we'll see the 65nm rsx in time for black friday? ('m hoping for something like last years 10 free blu rays, 65nm cell & rsx would seal the deal)