3DLabs next generation graphics chip

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by pascal, Mar 13, 2002.

  1. pascal

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Brasil
    From Ace´s Hardware:
    Link: http://www.aceshardware.com/#55000461

    My guess this chip (which probably has a working prototype) was enough to make Creative buy 3DLabs.

    The fact that it is programmable chips will have no immediate impact for any gamer (based on previous DX8 experience) until maybe 2004.

    What I am really interrested in is how well will it plays next generation games (DX8 and OpenGL):

    - This "very high quality output and accuracy" is wellcome and maybe it is a combination of 64bits and the traditional professional quality of 3DLabs cards (see it http://www.3dlabs.com/product/technology/wildcat_quality.htm ). Something like Supersene will be great 8) http://www.3dlabs.com/product/technology/superscene_antialiasing.htm. I just upgraded from a Radeon 32MB DDR to a GF3 Ti200 and I must say that my Layman´s eye dont like much the GF3 image quality :roll: .

    If this new chip is reasonably fast and have a great image quality then I am in. I doubt ATI and specially Nvidia will have this quality.

    Games like Doom3 with a BIG focus on great lighting using multiple pass will require high quality to be fully enjoyed. 8)
     
  2. Nappe1

    Nappe1 lp0 On Fire!
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,529
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    South east finland
    This will be a wild year to the buyers.
    - Matrox
    - ATI
    - nVidia
    - Creative
    have been already signed to race and more pontential racers are:
    - Bitboys with their Next gen
    - S3/VIA with their Columbia
    - PowerVR/VIA/STM/IMG (or whatever that is...) with their STG5000 series.

    Me more than likes! :)

    What more we would like to hear?? maybe Micron announcing that Rendition is coming back? ;)
     
  3. RussSchultz

    RussSchultz Professional Malcontent
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    HTTP 404
    You are ever the optimist.

    Me, the pessimist, thinks the only people who will release anything this year are NVIDIA and ATI. Matrox might, the rest are just pipe dreams.
     
  4. Joe DeFuria

    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    5,994
    Likes Received:
    70
    4Q 2002 / early 2003 should be extremely interesting indeed. I would guess that Matrox will be in the battle. I think 3D Labs will eventually make it into the battle, though I would be surprsied to actually see the product on the shelves this year. Projected dates as far as x-mas tend to slip...

    I'll bet Carmack is getting blitzed with "support" from all of these graphics companies. X-Mas 2002 / early 2003 sounds like it should be just about the right time to see Doom3, if not the Doom3 "test". Whichever of these next-gen parts benches the best on that engine, is going to get a huge boost...no matter how poorly that part might play anything else. ;)
     
  5. pascal

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Brasil
    IIRC Carmack gave an interview to a magazine (gamesomething ??? :) ) and he said that the Doom3 engine will probably be finished by august/2002.
     
  6. ben6

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    3
    Micron/Rendition is all but dead in the graphics chip /chipset arena. They had a dual channel DDR solution ready, but Intel refused to grant a FSB license (similar situation to Nvidia) and bought the rights to their chipset. You might see parts of Micron technology in Intel chipsets though... Of course my buddy at Micron is now working on Smartflash cards or the like (he used to work for Diamond Multimedia)
     
  7. psurge

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    LA, California
    Question, how far from completing a chip can you be when you already know the transistor count of your chip? (regarding 3dlabs 76million transistor announcement). Also, who fabs chips for 3dlabs?
     
  8. 3dcgi

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,435
    Likes Received:
    263
    You can have a pretty good idea of transistor count fairly early in the design process so the number doesn't really tell us anything. However, if they are expecting to have products by Christmas they've probably already taped out the first revision of the chip.
     
  9. flask

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    3dlabs completed tape-out last year,
    but were looking for money backing,
    which they have now... :)
     
  10. Simon F

    Simon F Tea maker
    Moderator Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    157
    Location:
    In the Island of Sodor, where the steam trains lie
    This is just idle speculation, but perhaps it might be determined by other factors...
    Perhaps they decided what the chip should cost to manufacture. Cost is largely determined by the area of the chip (i.e. N*M millimetres) and for a given process (eg .1x u) that would determine how many gates/transistors they can use. <shrug>
     
  11. pascal

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Brasil
    Look at this:
    - 170 Gigaflops (GF3 is only 70Gigaflops)
    - 76 millions transistors
    - by the end of the year
    - mass market target

    edited: it is 2.2Gigaflops per million transistors, maybe a high frequency clock.

    Maybe it will be a high clock (300~400MHz) .13 micron process chip. It makes sense to me. 8)

    edited: TSMC ???
     
  12. pascal

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Brasil
    More about Doom3 I got from U2 forum :)
    Anyone here has been at this quakecon?
     
  13. hughJ

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    263
  14. pascal

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Brasil
    The latest 3DLabs cards have really impressive specs with 256bits DDR memory access:
    http://www.3dlabs.com/product/wildcatIII_6110_index.htm

    What is DirectBurst ?
    I would like to see some screenshots of Q3 or UT with Superscene. 8)

    edited: Hughj, Great. I bet we will have at least a Doom3 test by Q3/Q4 this year 8)
     
  15. arjan de lumens

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    gjethus, Norway
    "DirectBurst" appears to be a memory dedicated to holding onboard copies of (pre-T&L) vertex arrays, so that the board does not need to re-fetch vertices over the AGP bus for every time it does T&L on them.
     
  16. pascal

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Brasil
    Interresting, the new Wildcat III has a single chip doing the T&L and rasterizer functions (the Wildcat II has two chips).

    It means a chip with 256 bits memory access not using UMA (Three address bus 28bits for texture, 27bits for framebuffer and 25bits for directburst, total 100bits for addressing driving a lot of chips !!!).

    The next 3D Labs chip will need to be faster than willdcat III with Pro Applications. Will it use 256 bits too? The same way or different way?
     
  17. 3dcgi

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,435
    Likes Received:
    263
     
  18. Simon F

    Simon F Tea maker
    Moderator Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    157
    Location:
    In the Island of Sodor, where the steam trains lie
    Gosh.. still patiently waiting for 3dcgi's comment ;)
     
  19. pascal

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Brasil
    Correction, the total address bus for Wildcat III is 80 bits :oops:

    Anyway this non-UMA schema exploit a lot the eficiency of the Locality Principle.

    Looks like the direct burst use only SDR SDRAM.
    Maybe a more eficient way is dual 128bits DDR external memory, one for framebuffer and the other for the rest. It means more bandwith for textures (when needed) and less addressing bits.
     
  20. Geeforcer

    Geeforcer Harmlessly Evil
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    464
    That what some people said in the beginning of last year about 2001.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...