3D Gaming*

[JB9861]

What are viewing angles looking like on 3D without glasses? Is it viable in the living room? Seems like they would need to just stick to portable devices until that's sorted out.

 

[patsu]

Ubisoft interested in 3D development on home console and 3DS:
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/05/18/ubisoft-hint-at-nintendo-3ds-development/

Ubisoft estimate that 15-20% of their console games will be 3D compatible by next year, and that the figure could rise to 50% the year after that.

Not so mysteriously, they added: “Maybe also on portable machines.”

 

[MfA]

What are viewing angles looking like on 3D without glasses?

For 3DS likely around 5-10 degrees horizontally (ie. you pretty much have to look straight on). Unless Sharp/Nintendo uses a high resolution barrier and eye-tracking ... which is possible, but unlikely.

Is it viable in the living room?

No, it's only really useful for single viewer (for more than 1 the resolution goes down very fast, and resolution needs for the barriers up very fast, even with 1 viewer horizontal resolution of the 2D display is halved). A barrier doesn't project light from the display into the eyes, it creates many light/dark zones of light with one of the light zones overlapping with one of your eyes and a dark zone overlapping the other eye ... but all the other light zones will ruin the image for other viewers.

Array field lenses can project the light into a single eye, Seereal is working on this. Technological limits on lenticular lenses will limit the viewing angle to ~60 degrees ... unless you get REALLY tricky.

 

[_phil_]

Glasses less 3D will probably come to the living room within a couple of years (with directional back lighting through array field lenses)

you mean practical for more than one viewer ? A couple of years sounds really too soon.

 

[patsu]

Just came across this. It's more than a month old. I don't remember posting it. Here goes:
http://www.develop-online.net/features/859/Crytek-and-the-shifting-state-of-play

I understand you’ve been demoing the CryEngine’s stereoscopic 3D properties.
Jones: Yes we were showing off our real-time stereoscopic 3D, which is native in the engine and can be used at just a click of a button. Also, we can generate high-quality movie output in 3D too.
I think people are starting to wake up and take notice that 3D is on its way, it’s not long before developers are taking advantage of it.
I think we need to see which way the hardware goes, because obviously 3D is still quite expensive to set up domestically. But this is a technology that is going to move fairly quickly, and it won’t be long before the whole service is going to be ubiquitous.
We are taking 3D very seriously. It certainly adds a lot to a number of games. Depth perception in an FPS really changes the game and makes it a lot more enjoyable.

Does that sort of technology really make a difference in Crysis 2?
Yerli: First of all there’s no comment on Crysis 2 being in 3D, and secondly, yes it does make a big difference [laughs].
If you look at the engine, 3D does really improve things, but we don’t have a strategy for Crysis yet.

Has anyone seen their work yet ?

 

[MfA]

you mean practical for more than one viewer ? A couple of years sounds really too soon.

You could build a prototype right now for a 50 degree viewing angle version for less than 10K dollars, the total bill of parts in volume production is unlikely to be more than a couple 100$ over a normal LCD display ... all the basic methods necessary are there in literature, Seereal has a patent but it adds nothing substantial to the literature and they fail to make some logical choices for some reason, and the basic materials necessary readily available and affordable. It's just a question of putting it together and paying for the manpower necessary to tweak things until it's production ready.

 

[patsu]

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/05/19/gt5_3d_on_display/

Gran Turismo 5 is going on public display later this week at Sony's Dot Park event. There's going to be something slightly different from the past Tokyo Game Show showings and demos, though. This time, players will be able to sample the upcoming racer in full 3D!

Dot Park will be held from May 21 through May 25 at Roppongi Hills in central Tokyo. The event will highlight Sony's various music, movie and game contents and artists through talk and demo sessions.

...

Some 3D concert being held in Japan, plus...

Outside of Gran Turismo, Sony will highlight PlayStation 3 technology in a talk session hosted by senior vice president Yutaka Teiji.

 

[patsu]

Best Buy Adds CinemaNow Movie Service
http://www.twice.com/article/452760-Best_Buy_Adds_CinemaNow_Movie_Service.php

Testing 3DTV content for future delivery.

Minneapolis - Best Buy said Tuesday it has acquired the rights to use the CinemaNow name for its streaming movie and TV show service that will be offered through apps on various connected CE devices, including TVs, Blu-ray Disc players, game systems, PCs and various mobile products.

A small portion of the service's overall title offerings will be available in up to 1080p HD resolution, Best Buy said, but the intention is to make HDTV a major part of the portfolio, along with future technology offerings, including 3DTV.

Currently, streaming 3DTV titles are being tested for the service for a future offering, Best Buy said.

 

[_phil_]

Thanks MFA.Looks like they need Oled.Not sure LCD can properly fight crosstalk yet.

 

[MfA]

It doesn't work with LEDs ... field lenses only work with LCD.

 

[patsu]

The larger 3DTVs are coming:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/05/06/3d-tv-demonstration-at-sony-netherlands-hq/



They'll be using a 6-degree tilt design according to this PR article:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/04/21/the-essence-of-monolithic-design/



However, there is also an Android TV project:
http://good3dtv.com/3d-tv/forget-3d-television-google-sony-intel-hd-tv-coming-soon/


I sure hope for Sony's sake that the 2 projects are one and the same, but they are likely to be different.

Ok, confirmed the Android TV (NX800) is also a 3DTV:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/05/...0-processor-and-has-google-chrome-flash-10-1/

The CE4100 has full MPEG-4/H.264 support, Flash 10.1 support, 3D graphics capability, high-end audio and can also capture and decode uncompressed 1080p video. The chip also features an integrated NAND controller, along with support for DDR2 and DDR3 memory. The TV will also run the Google Chrome internet browser, and have the full version of Flash 10.1. However, the real power play is that the TV will most likely support the upcoming Chrome Web Store, as well. This could open up the opportunity for the TV to run thousands of applications later this year. We were not able to confirm if the TV will have built-in flash/hdd storage.

http://ledtvscreens.org/led-3d-tvs/experience-3d-with-sony-bravia-nx800-hdtv.html

BRAVIA Engine 3 is the technology incorporated with this new 3D TV.

 

[_phil_]

It doesn't work with LEDs ... field lenses only work with LCD.

I probably misunderstood because of that quote in their brochure:

With state-of-the-art 120Hz panels, as used in
time-sequential color displays or TV applications,
flicker-free full-resolution 2D and 3D will materialise.
As these technologies (or OLED) are becoming
mainstream, it will be simple to incorporate
NextGen.

 

[MfA]

They presumably want to use it for the light source.

 

[Billy Idol]

Plain 2D version upgraded to 3D for free, old?!

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=247627

 

[_phil_]

Sony has said that they won't do auto 2D to stereoscopic 3D conversion. I'll approach this rumor with suspicion.

These are fully converted stereoscopic games .

 

[patsu]

Yeah, the 4 free games are specially crafted. I don't remember Sony pushing auto 2D to stereoscopic 3D conversion.

 

[Aeoniss]

So would there be alot of additional resource consumption on the part of the PS3 to pull off stereoscopic 3d gaming?

I was reading a (leaked) gamepro article about KZ3 and it mentioned the 3D effects it had going on.

I guess what I'm asking is- is it the hot tech in the newer TV's doing most of the leg work? Or is RSX having to render the game at double the framerate or something?

For instance, if I were to select "3D: Off" for KZ3 (lets pretend) behind the scenes would that massively deflate rendering overhead? Or is it not really a big deal to pull off?

 

[brain_stew]

So would there be alot of additional resource consumption on the part of the PS3 to pull off stereoscopic 3d gaming?

I was reading a (leaked) gamepro article about KZ3 and it mentioned the 3D effects it had going on.

I guess what I'm asking is- is it the hot tech in the newer TV's doing most of the leg work? Or is RSX having to render the game at double the framerate or something?

For instance, if I were to select "3D: Off" for KZ3 (lets pretend) behind the scenes would that massively deflate rendering overhead? Or is it not really a big deal to pull off?

You need to render two viewpoints instead of one so, yes, there's going to have to be some major compromises. Most current examples on consoles simply half the resolution in 3D mode whereas on the PC side you generally just see your performance drop by 40-50% at the same quality level. There's lots of clever things they can do to pull it off with as little impact as possible of course but so far no game has managed to support stereo3D without some major compromises compared to the regular version.

 

[Danalys]

Should be looking towards split screen off-line multi-player games as an example of the change in graphical fidelity. Although split screen should actually effect memory management more, and the recombination of the two images in your brain can add extra detail.

A post processing effect via the TV or console would add too much lag I would think.

 

[ultragpu]

I would hate to play in 3d with half of the resolution and I hope KZ3 would at least provide a 2d option for the full res and effects.This console gen just isn't powerful enough for a full on 3d game experience from the sound of it.