3D Gaming*

ergem said:
Yes handheld unit does not require wide view angle. Do you really think it's financially impractical? Considering Sony's stance toward 3D standards on the coming years, don't you think maybe Sony is at least considering putting one?
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I´d say it all depends on the price of the OLED screen with the required amount of pixels. I think OLED is the only alternative for that type of hi-res screen on a handheld as it draws less power than LCD. I don´t know that market well enough to guess if it´s feasible or not.
I also don´t know the cost of the vertical lense screen that has to be attached, it should probably be pretty cheap in large quantities.
It would not require twice as much rendering capacity as a lot of pixels can be reused between the images, but it would still warrant a certain overhead.

Maybe Sony is considering it for PSP2, one obvious advantage is that it would be a very obvious market differentiator compared to the current PSP.
 
Crossbar said:
I´d say it all depends on the price of the OLED screen with the required amount of pixels. I think OLED is the only alternative for that type of hi-res screen on a handheld as it draws less power than LCD. I don´t know that market well enough to guess if it´s feasible or not.
I also don´t know the cost of the vertical lense screen that has to be attached, it should probably be pretty cheap in large quantities.
It would not require twice as much rendering capacity as a lot of pixels can be reused between the images, but it would still warrant a certain overhead.

Maybe Sony is considering it for PSP2, one obvious advantage is that it would be a very obvious market differentiator compared to the current PSP.
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http://www.alioscopy.com/Overview
http://www.alioscopyusa.com/content/technology-overview

I tried reading the overview of the technology thinking I would understand it one bit. LOL. Anyway, the technology is only applicable for large screens, I take it? Because it's only applicable for an HD resolution (2 million pixels)?
 
I thought I linked this before ... but I guess I didn't ...

http://masterimage3d.com/products/3d-lcd

That's the technology that is based on. I don't think this makes a lot of sense with OLED, since the barrier is based on LCD which wastes a lot of the potential energy saving (because only half the light from the OLED display can be utilized, the light from a LCD display is however already inherently polarized so the barrier LCD uses that more efficiently). Without the energy saving angle all your left with is a more expensive screen.
 
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Lets say someone has already got a decent 1080P HDTV. Whats the point in getting glasses AND upgrading the TV for 1080P 3D when, if you're already wearing glasses anyway you may as well just get a set of glasses which displays the video natively on the inside of the glasses instead?

This is the one thing I don't get about 3D gaming/TV. If you've got the glasses, why do you need the TV?! Can someone please explain why we can't simply use OLED glasses?
 
Could you get 720p or 1080p resolution onto OLED glasses? Surely they would need to be tethered to the console? What about weight, power input, and durability?

I agree it would be awesome if they did work: accelerometers built in for head-tracking plus complete FOV :)
 
grandmaster said:
Nope, look at the link I gave to patsu.
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I read the link, and I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly. The article states that PS3 needs a firmware update in order to play 3D games. This update is also needed to support 3DTVs. I'm assuming that you can't just use active shutter glasses with any 120hz TV because the emitter needs to talk to the TV to sync.

So how is it that you can play Avatar in 3D on PS3 if PS3 isnt 3D capable yet and you cant buy a 3D TV? Anaglyph doesnt require anything other than those special glasses. Polarized requires a special screen so that's out. If it's active shutter and Avatar works right now, in 3D (and looks good according to you) why do we need 3D TVs at all?
 
Avatar doesn't use anaglyph. It uses any one of five different 3D implementations based on half-resolution frames. The link contained screenshots showing all of them. In short it works on existing 3D screens, while the Sony firmware etc is based on the new screens based on the HDMI 1.4 standard. It may well be that these screens are backwardly compatible with one or more of the 3D schemes supported by Avatar.
 
patsu said:
Early adopters usually dictate the trend *a lot*. The HD movie war would be a good example.
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It was a gaming machine that one the HD movie war, not Blu-ray players. That's not early adoption, it's a trojan horse effect. The majority of people that own 3D-ready TVs right now weren't buying them because they're 3D-ready. They just wanted a relatively inexpensive bigscreen and Mitsubishi's DLP's just so happened to have 3D support. Most stores I've been to don't even advertise that those TVs are 3D-ready.
Nebula said:
But it has in several games adding quite some that adds to the immersion. I wouldn't call ~30k dynamic water particles with complex physics and interaction something small in Cryostasis which adds alot to immersion. Not either when it is near 60fps with a GTS250 budget card (standalone). But yeah go open standard but until then it delivers very good stuff for millions of gamers something I cant say about 3D glasses so far from what I've seen. :smile:
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Millions of gamers aren't buying Cryostasis. I agree with your point about its potential to enhance a game, but so far, no really popular game is incorporating it in a way that's integral to the gameplay or immersion.
 
grandmaster said:
Could you get 720p or 1080p resolution onto OLED glasses? Surely they would need to be tethered to the console? What about weight, power input, and durability?

I agree it would be awesome if they did work: accelerometers built in for head-tracking plus complete FOV :)
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http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=141734&view=findpost&p=863640 said:
From the extreme of the 65 inch TV display, and laser displays CES also exhibited a screen that is no bigger than a half an inch wide but which promises to pack a cinematic punch.

The technology is embedded in a pair of glasses that plugs into a smartphone or laptop.

The UK's Cambridge Display Technology is behind the Vizux specs. It said they are "energy miserly" which means they are not a drain on devices and can last for hours.

Chairman and chief executive David Fyfe said Vizux signals a new way of watching video content.

"These glasses will plug into a cellphone that's playing streaming video and it will be like watching a 32 inch TV in front of your eyes.

"And all of that is from a screen that is less than a half an inch wide and less than a quarter of an inch deep."

The technology behind the glasses is called organic light emitting diode or OLED, a cutting edge technology that does not need a blacklight to work and can therefore be made much thinner than an LCD panel.

Mr Fyfe said the Vizux experience is much more immersive than old fashioned TV and reckons they will be a boon to travellers and the so called "road warrior" who works on the road.

"This is a fantastic way of carrying a very small piece of equipment with you and getting an almost cinema like experience."

These are OLED based NOT LCD, so res and colour are better than any thing before acoording to people who tried them they really are almost as good a 32" LCD display but run from a IPOD phone or other portable device.

Although not true HD (yet), real 720p-1080p version could appear in next 12-24 months.

website:

http://www.cdtltd.co.uk/
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Now that could totally work for a console. If you have a wireless controller you could plug in both together and leech the battery/wireless interface off the controller itself. Why limit yourself to a TV? You could play games almost anywhere, I would buy one if it was good and less than $200.

Edit: Imagine playing local multiplayer with your own screen! :)
 
But that technology is similar to something that's existed since quite a while, though of course it'll be much better quality now and smaller and more energy efficient.

Now I'm sure it should be very efficient for recreating a large 2D panel in front of your eyes, but will it work for proper 3D? The distance from your eyes could become a big handicap there?
 
grandmaster said:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-stereo-3d-article :)
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Yes, this is the part I'm trying to find out:

Whether the HDMI 1.2 output of the Xbox 360 could be patched with any of the full-resolution stereo 3D modes remains to be seen, but it's fair to say you shouldn't be holding your breath. However, certainly in theory, a side-by-side 720p buffer is conceivable, and Avatar 360's advantage in 3D performance over its PS3 counterpart is obvious even without recourse to FPS analysis, suggesting that the horsepower is there too: at the end of the day, there are few unique effects that one console can achieve that the other can't match. The only question really is whether the Xbox 360's HANA chip could be firmware-upgraded to interface with the new displays.
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So the side-by-side encoding technique half the res (bandwidth) ? ...since 1.2 has about half the bandwidth compared to 1.3 and 1.4 (if I remember correctly). I am a little sleep deprived these few days. So don't trust my memory.
 
Squilliam said:
Now that could totally work for a console. If you have a wireless controller you could plug in both together and leech the battery/wireless interface off the controller itself. Why limit yourself to a TV? You could play games almost anywhere, I would buy one if it was good and less than $200.

Edit: Imagine playing local multiplayer with your own screen! :)
Click to expand...

I was looking at these HMD solutions to see how they're progressing. The problem with them is that their field of view are still very small. Note they mentioned 32" screen size, even some models will mentioned 65" screen but from 12 feet away. Their fov are still low. About the same as the Sony unit I tried around a decade ago.

For the hassle that these HMD solutions put on you, they should provide wider fov like 165 degrees or above. You know giving the IMAX 3D like experience. So far I am not aware of consumer friendly solution for something like that. I only know of sensics that is offering that kind of solution, but the unit cost like half a million dollar and look cumbersome. It offers 4k x 2k res by stitching several screens together. So you can see the seams when your eyes isn't looking straight.

Anyway here hoping with OLED keep on improving, I hope HMD can make great progress. If they can offer IMAX 3D experience in a HMD for less than $5k, I'll probably buy it.
 
MfA said:
Why? It's still at a large focal length regardless of the physical distance.

Here's a site for HD OLED, the alternative is LCOS and FLCOS.
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Creepy stuf!

insite_1.jpg
oculon.jpg
 
V3 said:
I was looking at these HMD solutions to see how they're progressing. The problem with them is that their field of view are still very small. Note they mentioned 32" screen size, even some models will mentioned 65" screen but from 12 feet away. Their fov are still low. About the same as the Sony unit I tried around a decade ago.
Click to expand...

There are some unfortunate draw backs with the current technology, but getting it right would be a big bonus to any console which can gain access to the technology exclusively. Probably need to get the percieved screen size up to at least equal or greater than a typical home theatre setup and they're good to go.

So how much would a decent unit cost in a year or so if someone commited to making millions of units as opposed to say, thousands at a time?
 
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