[360] Splinter Cell: Conviction

[deepbrown]

http://gameplanets.blogspot.com/2007/05/new-splinter-cell-conviction-images.html

 

[Pozer]

Wouldn't it have to be a lighting effect that requires lots of bandwidth for widespread usage.... something like softshadows on every object.

I just don't see why people get worked up when a dev says the 360 or ps3 can do specific things the other can't more effectively. I'm sure there are AI and animation routines the ps3 does that would put the smack down on the 360. Not that the 360 couldn't do them, but 360 couldn't do them nearly as effectively. I mean even my old Amiga 500 could render ToyStory level cgi, but it might take it 100,000 years.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

well according to this it seems there's more mystery to it, unless another finnish would translate for us to confirm its validity. but wouldnt suprise me wat he said was true.

I was just reading the magazine and the 3d-programmer Stephen Hill says that, had the game also be coming to PS3 they would have had to simplify the lighting model heavily. He adds however that, had the game been a PS3 exclusive it's unknown to him what sort of end result they would have had. It does give you an impression that focusing only on one platform is the main reason for the higher quality.

 

[zed]

Wouldn't it have to be a lighting effect that requires lots of bandwidth for widespread usage.... something like softshadows on every object.

I just don't see why people get worked up when a dev says the 360 or ps3 can do specific things the other can't more effectively. I'm sure there are AI and animation routines the ps3 does that would put the smack down on the 360. Not that the 360 couldn't do them, but 360 couldn't do them nearly as effectively. I mean even my old Amiga 500 could render ToyStory level cgi, but it might take it 100,000 years.

just to nitpick but i used to program on the amiga500 theres no way u could do ToyStory level cgi as u were limited to a pallette ( + resolution though the eyebleeding interlaced mode perhaps would be enuf ), in saying that though at the time WRT graphics it was way better than previous machines

 

[Todd33]

Well they're making Assasin's Creed, and the new PoP game, Rainbow Six Vegas and a couple others for PS3.

I assume "they" means the specific dev group, not the whole company of several thousand people.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I assume "they" means the specific dev group, not the whole company of several thousand people.

'They' as in the development house Ubisoft MTL. A couple hundred people at least I'd imagine, certainly not thousands.

 

[betan]

He certainly knows a lot more than you about what he is talking about, if he said it, he probably has some explanation as to why he said it.

I too am sure he has a reason if he said it.
Thanks for tautology though.
Maybe you missed it but the quote you replied to was intended to point out total lack of certainty of the sub-topic under discussion, instead of stating how much better developer I was.

Be my guest if you still want to discuss PS3's lack of lighting capabilities.

Why does it matter if their ports from xbox to ps2 where good,? They where good enough to rake in a healthy profit. Could the ports have been made better? Of course they could, ports isn't about making the best product, its about making the product good enough to sell, as cheaply as you can.

You have a seriously flawed view if you judge a developers potential or knowledge based on how his\her games look, especially ports. Whats stopping most games from not being "good" is not the lack of skill, but the lack of money, time or ambition. If we gave kojima 1 million to make MGS4 it would have sucked. If we gave epic 1 million to make Gears of War, it would also suck.

If you give a team of coders 1 million to make a port, its more often that not going to suck as well.

Why the hell you are too defensive on this topic is beyond me but I have no particular view on Montreal developers, was just curious what makes them best cross platform developers. Do you have any evidence for that? Based on your reasoning there shouldn't be "best developers" out there (to our knowledge), which makes me wonder why you attacked me when I was the one asking.

Considering that they have released several titles on the PS3, and have 12 more in the making, i'm guessing they do have a slight clue about how to work with the PS3. ( Note: Ubisoft Montreal hasn't released any PS3 titles yet, but they are working on Assassins creed as well as this as far as i know?)

Yep I forgot about Assassin's Creed, let's see how it turns out.

More on topic, those scans are crappy, I hope they release some shots soon.
And this may really be Microsoft's answer to MGS4, so I wouldn't be surprised if the game stays exclusive even long after 360 release.

 

[Pozer]

just to nitpick but i used to program on the amiga500 theres no way u could do ToyStory level cgi as u were limited to a pallette ( + resolution though the eyebleeding interlaced mode perhaps would be enuf ), in saying that though at the time WRT graphics it was way better than previous machines

Well not a stock 500, it wasn't a phrase meant to be taken literally... kinda like "if my grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon.."

but I guess you could take a stock 500 with the ecs chipset, do the fat angus solder trick to get the 512k ram expansion recognized as chip mem for a total of 1 meg. Add a bodega bay expansion chasis, install a video toaster with 24bit color output. Fire up lightwave and have fun..... don't forget to add a GVP hd/ram card.

 

[cloudscapes]

'They' as in the development house Ubisoft MTL. A couple hundred people at least I'd imagine, certainly not thousands.

over 1500 people at the moment, 1600 maybe?

 

[scooby_dooby]

over 1500 people at the moment, 1600 maybe?

Wow, you guys are huge

 

[aselto]

Wow, you guys are huge

Announced (or leaked materials from last year) games in development by Ubi Montreal:
-Assassin's Creed(360/PS3)
-Splinter Cell Conviction(360)
-Naruto(360)
-Prince of Persia next-gen(360,PS3)
-Far Cry 2(PC)
-Lost(multiple platforms)
Plus possibly some more (a sequel to R6 Vegas?).

I believe that many projects simultaneously have too be handled by many people, so that number isn't surprising.

 

[Tap In]

could SC:C be using these lighting techniques?

 

[Ether_Snake]

Such as?

Sorry for the trick question, but I honestly can't think of a lighting technology possible, to the same extent, solely on Xenos or RSX.
Also, Splinter Cell Conviction uses the good old UE2X, modified by Ubi Montréal folks to suit their needs. Nothing new or ground breaking.

The lighting looks nice for the reason that they use precomputed occlusion/radiance transfer color/light maps, and they might have added dynamic PRT to this new version of the engine (Not sure, will ask).

It can't be precomputed, because all the objects seen in the scans can be grabbed and thrown around; chairs, tables, printers, computers, paper stacks, etc. Plus if the occlusion was precomputed you know it would remain after an object was thrown.

 

[pakotlar]

could SC:C be using these lighting techniques?

Nice find. I wonder, probably does not use it, but still cool.

 

[CEO]

I am really impressed with this stuff as long as they don't neglect the shadow stealth stuff. There are some really interesting things they could do with that stuff though, as they don't have to give you all kinds of crazy weapons and gadgets to give you options.

yeah. i want a friggin awesome STEALTH SUIT where you getting barely noticeable when not moving, or better make him go unnoticed past people with that stealth suit turned on!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It can't be precomputed, because all the objects seen in the scans can be grabbed and thrown around; chairs, tables, printers, computers, paper stacks, etc. Plus if the occlusion was precomputed you know it would remain after an object was thrown.

Without seeing the game in motion, we don't know that it doesn't. Of the little I saw in grottyvision scans, the only thing I noticed about the lighting was shadows cast and received by everything in what appeared to be high-resolution (no jaggies on the shadows). There was GI involved but no reason to think it's static or dynamic. If dynamic that would be very impressive! LBP is the only game so far to get something like that going.

 

[pakotlar]

Without seeing the game in motion, we don't know that it doesn't. Of the little I saw in grottyvision scans, the only thing I noticed about the lighting was shadows cast and received by everything in what appeared to be high-resolution (no jaggies on the shadows). There was GI involved but no reason to think it's static or dynamic. If dynamic that would be very impressive! LBP is the only game so far to get something like that going.

It also seems that they have not implemented a fully unified shadowing system. Probably something a bit more akin to the earlier splinter cells, where different objects are treated in different ways. Look at the objects in the cafe scene scan. Looks like a greatly simplified shadow system compared to the other scenes.

 

[NovemberMike]

I can't even keep track of what Splinter Cell game subtitle matches to what game anymore. They should just put damn numbers on them. This would be what? Splinter Cell 5? Or they could just straight up follow Madden and call it Splinter Cell 2007 since they squeeze one out very regularly once a year.

Just remember that the good team's games have a C in them. Splinter Cell, Chaos Theory, Conviction.

 

[L. Scofield]

Some new info:

* So by now you know Sam comes back to help out a Grim, but doesn't like what's going down at the "new" 3rd Echelon. He is an enemy of the state, fighting for what he believes in. He's on the run with limited resources. He's alone but not defenseless. At the same time, he's not a victim a fugitive or in hiding; he's fighting for his convictions (hence the title).
* The screenshots are AWESOME! The environments look totally interactive. In one shot, it appears he punched or threw a guy who then lands on a counter and knocks over cups and plates while civilians are scattering.
Conviction uses Havok physics, but all the original code has been rewritten.
* "In previous games, we had 2,000 or 3,000 animations, now we already have over 10,000."
* The pace of the game is going to be changed. The devs want to create 15-minute playable segments so it's a little more accesible to casuals, but they promise you can still sit down with it for a few hours if you like. Hopefully they find a balance that still keeps you immersed.
* Previous SC games were about "passive stealth" where you hide in the shadows and wait for a perfect opportunity to strike. In conviction, the idea is "active stealth" where you react quicky to your surroundings. You'll always be on the move. Again it's mentioned that Ubi wants to give Sam more ways to interact with the environment instead of just shooting or turning off lights.
* The animation system is based on the concept of Biometrics which just means getting the character to move naturally and fluidly. They mention how they want to eliminate pressing a button to pick something up and seeing Sam slide into place in front of the object before he interacts with it. They say an animation of Sam running up to a chair, picking it up and throwing it took 8 months to work out. I'd be willing to be they got it right. The screens of him progressing through the animation look very good. Also, there will be physics tied to the chair Sam is holding, so you'll bump into things with the chair and it won't just go through a wall.
* The original games went for a T rating from the start, but this time, they're going for an M rating so things should be a little more realistic. They mention how this could have an interesting impact on Sam's finishing moves.
* They mention a sort of hypothetical gameplay situation where Sam takes out a guard with some crazy melee combos. He then grabs the guard and throws him through a pane of glass or over a table (knocking over all the stuff on the table). Sam grabs the guard's radio and listens in on police radio chatter. He hears that they're sending in police after him through the front door. Sam opens the back door but doesn't go through; instead, he hides under a table, a guard walks in and investigates the open door. At that point, Sam could sneak out the front door, or he could knock over the table he's hiding behind, use it for cover and open fire on the guard. OR he could sneak up on the guard, handcuff him to a rail and kicks him down a flight of stairs. wow.
* When you are detected, there's no limit to what you can do. All the tools you use are available in your immediate surroundings. Sam doesn't have a backpack of gadgets this time. Use what's around you and improvise to get out of a sticky situation.
* About the beard: Originally, Fisher was created with a beard in the very first game.
* New form of lighting called indirect lighting means that the way light reflects off your surroundings affects how light is cast on you and nearby objects. Light reflecting off a large red poster will cast nearby things in a slight tint of red.
* There will still be a lot of classic SC moments like planting bombs or hacking computers, but the gratification won't necessarily come from completing the objective, but the path you take to the objective.
* Crowd AI will react to Sam's behavior. For example, Sam can steal a guy's laptop, but the guy will follow Sam and call for the police. Nearby witnesses will also point Sam out to nearby police. Sam can blend into the crowd in certain situations to avoid detection. The crowd AI is pretty smart. You won't see NPCs walk into each other, spaz out, then walk away in totally opposite directions. People move out of the way of objects intelligently.
* Sam has an ability called Heroes Instinct where the crowd and surroundings become greyed out and threats such as police are made to standout. Assassin's creed anyone?

No MP details were given aside from the fact that Montreal is doing that aspect of the game as well, so they aren't going to split SP and MP between two dev studios.

Sounds hot.

 

[NovemberMike]

* New form of lighting called indirect lighting means that the way light reflects off your surroundings affects how light is cast on you and nearby objects. Light reflecting off a large red poster will cast nearby things in a slight tint of red.

!!!!!