2000-5 PS2 (so far)

[Lazy8s]

jvd:

So are the computer games from the last gen where console games are heading

It's funny that such a thing is the case.

In North America and Europe, the computing standard for consumers was filled by the PC. Being a general purpose platform, it had to accomodate a spectrum of utility and therefore required interfaces, controllers, and displays tuned for a range of tasks. Keyboards allowed for lots of inputs with all of the keys, monitors enabled a sharp display for making lots of text and electronic documents workable, and hard drives allowed for a more efficient local work environment. Gaming, one of the PC's many functions, took advantage of the platform's interface and resulted in game types that were very involved, focusing on complex interactions with the game world facilitated by a keyboard and text.

The PC didn't catch on as the computing standard for consumers in Japan, however. Computing technology there was instead driven by videogame consoles -- a major reason that the videogaming industry has traditionally been led by Japanese manufacturers. As a gaming-specific computing platform, consoles got interfaces and controllers designed especially for gameplay to enable fast and fluid action. While North American and European developers were honing their skills on more involved game types, Japanese developers were mastering action-based gameplay types which required smoothness and responsiveness. This distinction is still present today as the smoothest reflex-based fighters, shooters, slash-em-ups, etc. still come predominantly from Japan, and the games with the most complex interactivity and world building/changing elements like SimCity, Morrowind, GTA, Fable, The Sims, Black and White, etc. come largely from outside the country.

And now that the videogame industry is globalizing, bringing market opportunity to more developers from countries outside of Japan, their style of game design is helping to bring about console games with worlds of greater scope and dynamics, like Knights of the Old Republic.

 

[Almasy]

Indeed Shenmue is a legitimate watermark that anyone including SEGA fans can use because after all if the shoe was in the other foot and Shenmue and its sequel would have been developed specifically on PS2 (provided that the PS2 were to have 8MB of VideoRam instead of 4MB) Then add Square as the publisher and forget it, all Sony PS2 fanboys would be raving about Shemue as the definitive Emotion Engine materialized in a videogame, that and the game would not have faced the gamer apathy and instead sold millions on fluffy hype alone.

Like marconelly said, this is so 2001. Talking as if the PS2 couldn´t handle it is pretty ridiculous when taking into account the kind of graphical graphic intesive titles the PS2 has been home to.

As for the game itself, Shenmue is a pretty qverage one. In terms of presentation the game has been far surpassed by many other games on PS2 and the other systems obviously. The graphics portion of the game hasn´t aged well either, and the gameplay mechanics are pretty awfull (not to mention the incredibly boring nature of the game doesn´t help it).

One question, what priority, does having an NPC with a scripted route has on actual gameplay? It does help in terms of immersion, but other, much more critical parts of the gameplay needed work, a lot of work. AM2 should have listened to common sense and realize that when an 80s arcade game is much more interesting and fun than the entire main game, it meant something was wrong with the product.

IMO, instead of wasting its time on creating routines for generic japanese NPCs, AM2 could have spent it on creating fun, diverse gameplay, and a better use for the pretty deep fighting system included in the game.

Either way, thankfully the game doesn´t seem to be getting a third chapter, and that frees resources to help Sega recover from its stagnant position in terms of quality releases, the company is almost irrelevant to the market right now, which is sad.

 

[Lazy8s]

Almasy:

One question, what priority, does having an NPC with a scripted route has on actual gameplay?

For those who appreciated the game's narrative, the cohesiveness that gave each little detail its own purpose within the story's setting offered players a dimension of characters, personalities, and intricacies to explore. While it wasn't a challenging gameplay mechanic, discovering what some "background" character felt about something, uncovering what took place in "off-camera" locations of the world when the storyline's focus was somewhere else, and engaging a comprehensive curiosity to see the lives of the virtual community as deeply as desired could be rewarding.

Shenmue is like a book that can be read straight through, but can also be read between its pages at any point that the player wants to have fleshed out in more detail. It realized one of the dimensions that the medium of games has always promised over books, yet never achieved much of: interactive storytelling. Without the full modeling of the game's setting -- characters' lives and all -- it couldn't have offered that unique quality and instead would've been like most other games where the details exist only for the sake of the gameplay.

 

[passerby]

I think the simple problem is that the amount of resources poured into Shenmue's development was not justified by the size of it's audience.

However, with this type of design approach, Shenmue Online may really stand out from the other MMORPGs, so that will be very interesting.

 

[one]

The PC didn't catch on as the computing standard for consumers in Japan, however. Computing technology there was instead driven by videogame consoles -- a major reason that the videogaming industry has traditionally been led by Japanese manufacturers.

How can game consoles lead computing technology in Japan? C'mon the PS2 was released 4 years ago... If you mean gaming technology, PC games in Japan died in early '90s when Japanese PC brands finally gave way to IBM PC, so the consumer market is far more important for gaming in Japan.

The gaming population (kids) in Japan is decreasing, hence there's less prospect in console gaming. Instead, cell phones have a far greater install base than that of game consoles.

 

[Ty]

I think the simple problem is that the amount of resources poured into Shenmue's development was not justified by the size of it's audience.

However, with this type of design approach, Shenmue Online may really stand out from the other MMORPGs, so that will be very interesting.

My problem with Shenmue is that it's just not fun. It's just so slow paced and therefore boring. I'm sure it's a wonderful virtual world with all the subtle nuances and details possible for this time, but you know what? I play games to escape reality, to have fun, to push boundries I couldn't normally do in real life. Mind you, I only played the first few hours because I couldn't stomach it any longer. Maybe one of these days when I retire I'll get back to it.

 

[j^aws]

...
Are any programmers using the synthesis model to create new experiences?

I've created procedurally generated imagery and experiences...without a CPU/GPU and '0' Flops too...it's called a decent book!

 

[Lazy8s]

one:

How can game consoles lead computing technology in Japan?

Of the consumer devices that pushed demand for performance microprocessing, game consoles (and, by reflection, application specific consumer electronics in general) grew to the largest sector. That's why consoles sometimes got peripherals like printers and hobbyist development kits only in Japan -- there had been more movement to expand the functionality of the console, a computing device so pervasive there.

C'mon the PS2 was released 4 years ago...

The Famicom was dominating almost two decades ago.

If you mean gaming technology, PC games in Japan died in early '90s when Japanese PC brands finally gave way to IBM PC, so the consumer market is far more important for gaming in Japan.

It's not that there have been no PCs in Japan, just that they didn't become a ubiquitous part of home life as in other countries. Things have been changing in the more recent years, and businesses of course adopted PCs much faster out of need.

The gaming population (kids) in Japan is decreasing, hence there's less prospect in console gaming. Instead, cell phones have a far greater install base than that of game consoles.

The application specific trend of consumer electronics continues to evolve into more broadly functional devices there with the wearable/mobile electronics culture of cell phones and such now. In the most industrialized area of the whole world, Tokyo, the preferred delivery medium for the internet is the cell phone -- one third of all people there both have a mobile phone and connect to the internet that way -- and cell phones themselves are owned by half of the population of the city.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

I think the simple problem is that the amount of resources poured into Shenmue's development was not justified by the size of it's audience.

However, with this type of design approach, Shenmue Online may really stand out from the other MMORPGs, so that will be very interesting.

I am getting Shenmue Online from a friend who's going to study in China!

 

[Jov]

...
Are any programmers using the synthesis model to create new experiences?

I've created procedurally generated imagery and experiences...without a CPU/GPU and '0' Flops too...it's called a decent book!

I wonder how many [brain] Cell Flops were burnt while reading that book of yours?

 

[Fafalada]

As a matter of fact the following article talks about Sony PS2 components the GS and EE from a technical standpoint

That article wasn't exactly particularly technical.

 

[MrSingh]

jvd:
The PC didn't catch on as the computing standard for consumers in Japan, however. Computing technology there was instead driven by videogame consoles -- a major reason that the videogaming industry has traditionally been led by Japanese manufacturers.

Funny, last time I checked most of the people here use PC's for regular computing tasks rather than consoles...

 

[Fafalada]

Funny, last time I checked most of the people here use PC's for regular computing tasks rather than consoles...

Your sources must be wrong

 

[Lazy8s]

Back when PCs started to become a standard part of the American and European household through the Eighties and Nineties, they were still comparatively uncommon in Japanese homes. Famicom penetration reached around 33% of the households in Japan, however, and spawned all sorts of peripherals from banking software to modems and satellite services.

While things have changed by now, yearly Japanese PC sales were still well under only ten million into the late 90s.

 

[Jov]

Back when PCs started to become a standard part of the American and European household through the Eighties and Nineties, they were still comparatively uncommon in Japanese homes. Famicom penetration reached around 33% of the households in Japan, however, and spawned all sorts of peripherals from banking software to modems and satellite services.

While things have changed by now, yearly Japanese PC sales were still well under only ten million into the late 90s.

If PCs are so limited (in uptake) in Japan, what are they using to get online? Don't tell me Cell phones because its hard to imagine interfacing with the things for long periods ( > 5 mins).

 

[Fafalada]

Back when PCs started to become a standard part of the American and European household through the Eighties and Nineties

If by PC you mean x86, then by all means no - they were not becoming a standard part of European households in the Eighties.
There was a lot of other kind of PCs though...

 

[Lazy8s]

Yes, mobile phones. Of the 120 million people in Tokyo, 40 million access the internet through their phones out of 60 million phones in service total. The Japanese-specific web is rather undeveloped compared to English language web content, and usage is still pretty heavily focused on text sites and e-mail communication (Japanese teen girls are the world's fastest numeric keypad typists.) Many have full-fledged PCs at home by now for more functional usage, though.

 

[Lazy8s]

Sorry, by "PCs" I was referring to general purpose computing, so Amigas/Commodores, Apples, etc. are counted.

 

[one]

Yes, mobile phones. Of the 120 million people in Tokyo, 40 million access the internet through their phones out of 60 million phones in service total.

Odd, last I checked Tokyo has only 12 million people... OTOH the entire Japan has 120 million

The Japanese-specific web is rather undeveloped compared to English language web content, and usage is still pretty heavily focused on text sites and e-mail communication (Japanese teen girls are the world's fastest numeric keypad typists.)

In relative number English web sites must be larger as they include not only the US and the UK, but Japanese web sites are not at all limited in text sites and e-mail. Those cellphones mainly access keitai-only websites with less bytes. Many sites have main contents along with keitai-only contents. BTW, broadband penetration, unrelated from mobile phone usage, is higher in Japan than the US IIRC, not to mention the rising number of 100Mb FTTH (fiber-to-the-home) in Japanese households.

As for the PC technology, Japan is ahead of the US in some ways because of different consumer preference and requirement. In Japan laptop machines are prefered and there are many products only available in Japan. IBM (now Lenovo) ThinkPad is developed in IBM Japan. Transmeta's main market is Japan.

Also, the Windows MCE is considered as a late attempt in Japan as most Japanese PC makers equivalent to Dell already equiped their machines with media capabilities since around 2000 with their own applications, like Sony VAIO, so MCE is kinda lame in there.

 

[Lazy8s]

Right, the Tokyo numbers I listed carried an extra zero by accident, but are accurate for Tokyo other than that and still carry the same ratios.