Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[3dilettante]

Yeah it does seem like a complete regurgitation but that would make sense if all the rumors we toss back and forth are true.

Dunno, I'm still holding out for some magic pixie dust in the final kits

It's also a partial regurgitation of some of the elements of the Xboxnext rumors. It either means they are similar, or people are losing track of which rumor is which.

 

[Carl B]

Yeah it does seem like a complete regurgitation but that would make sense if all the rumors we toss back and forth are true.

What makes more sense though is that rumors tossed around back and forth here end up in the articles of the gaming press; I'm not ready to ordain these rumors as truth because they were spat back at us in an article. Let's take our time here still...

Hopefully it has dedicated DSP via Cell, with PS3 compatibility to boot. With modest SoC, seems possible.

Well I would love that if true, believe me! But for DSP functionality alone, you could achieve it at a much cheaper transistor cost. So... to warrant Cell inclusion would require a whole lot more on the back-end than audio. Not enough that I can think of to expect it there.

 

[scently]

I'm assuming bgassassin's looking at paper specs that have significant architectural similarities, hence on paper Orbis should beat Durango. Let's say his sources have told him both are 8 core Jaguars at 2 GHz, 8800 type GPUs, one at 1.2 TFlops and one at 1.8 TFlop (apple to apple comparison), one with 100 GB/s BW and one with 200 GB/s BW. That would point to the second machine being the more powerful, and so comments that there's not much between the machines would be hard to reconcile. At which point, you'd want an explanation, and bg's asking if it could be dev tools. I don't think he'd ask his question if there wasn't good reason to see the hardwares as comparable. If the answer to his question is 'no', then he knows either the development comments are wrong, or the hardware specs he's seeing are wrong, or there's more to the machines than the specs are saying.

Indeed, personally, hearing that the ps4 is 1.84 and the xbox is 1.23 immediately made me go "yeah ps4 should be better" but hearing responses from people in the know that it will be another ps360 situation in which both systems are close, with some advantage here and there then obviously something has to give. There are many reasons why this might be so, not the least being, as Carl B said, that we need to evaluate both systems holistically when all the information become available. While it might seem that since the console makers are sourcing their components from the same maker, then it should be an apples vs apples comparison, I still feel that architectural differences, customization, specific request, performance target and inputs from the console makers themselves can affect the way things turn out.

Anyway I do hope that we get a "demystified" article for both systems (PLEEEEAASSSE DAVE).

 

[Alexct]

It's a complete regurgitation of the most accepted rumors here on B3D. Which one of you wrote it?

ex-Microsoft staffer points to a post of bkilian.

 

[anexanhume]

Hopefully it has dedicated DSP via Cell, with PS3 compatibility to boot. With modest SoC, seems possible.

I think Cell would be around 66 mm^2 on 28nm. Perhaps under 60 mm^2 if they took out the disabled SPE?

Xenos would definitely be under 60 mm^2 at 28nm. (and you have a Kinect2 processing unit too).

I could see them being used as DSP's or some other similar processing function and also for BC.

If that were the case, XB3 having x86, PPC and ARM cores all on the same SoC would be a mindtrip.

What makes more sense though is that rumors tossed around back and forth here end up in the articles of the gaming press; I'm not ready to ordain these rumors as truth because they were spat back at us in an article. Let's take our time here still...

At least it's not 4TF ZOMG Ray-tracing.

 

[patsu]

Thanks for the link. I hoped for 4 Steamrollers but it really looks like that the RAM (bandwidth versus amount) and the special/custom elements decide which console is "better".

Nah... So many elements for purchase decision !
Price, services/functionality, exclusive content, ecosystem, controller, friends, etc.

 

[Bagel seed]

It's also a partial regurgitation of some of the elements of the Xboxnext rumors. It either means they are similar, or people are losing track of which rumor is which.

What makes more sense though is that rumors tossed around back and forth here end up in the articles of the gaming press; I'm not ready to ordain these rumors as truth because they were spat back at us in an article. Let's take our time here still...

True. I only remember hearing 3GB OS for Xbox from 1 person a while ago but it was quickly dismissed by naysayers so it never really caught on in the web/forum/blogosphere.

The article doesn't completely sell me on it for the simple fact of 4GB GDDR5...

What's DF/Eurogamer's track record on leaks?

 

[Ruskie]

This thing sounds like something designed to be simple, potent and fast. The other console though...

 

[patsu]

What makes more sense though is that rumors tossed around back and forth here end up in the articles of the gaming press; I'm not ready to ordain these rumors as truth because they were spat back at us in an article. Let's take our time here still...



Well I would love that if true, believe me! But for DSP functionality alone, you could achieve it at a much cheaper transistor cost. So... to warrant Cell inclusion would require a whole lot more on the back-end than audio. Not enough that I can think of to expect it there.

Some rumors mentioned an audio DSP for Orbis.

Let's see the compute units ! Why not describe it since the other specs are revealed ? 8^/

Article also doesn't cover the controller and camera accessory.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What makes more sense though is that rumors tossed around back and forth here end up in the articles of the gaming press; I'm not ready to ordain these rumors as truth because they were spat back at us in an article. Let's take our time here still...

I think (and hope!) the Richard Leadbetter is using better sources than this board!

He goes on to say he has hard evidence of the RAM config (4 GBs GDDR5, 512 MBs reserved - at least a half-way reasonable OS consumption in this one!). And graphics level is Radeon 7970M.

As suggested way back, this gen may be aiming for a more economical platform designed to be cost effective at launch and offer returns on die shrinks in a way a monster platform probably couldn't. Perhaps they are both a little too early for stacked RAM, which is a shame. But then if Sony can move to that, I think we're looking at GDDR5 only for launch units.

One thing of interest is mention of custom hardware in Orbis too. I hope it's something reasonably substantial, just so we have some decent architectural differences to argue over for the next generation.

 

[anexanhume]

Nah... So many elements for purchase decision !
Price, services/functionality, exclusive content, ecosystem, controller, friends, etc.

Indeed. I prefer 360 for the controller and ecosystem. I consider the PS3 to be technically superior (extending into preferring the visuals) and have better exclusive content. I expect the exact same reasons to persist this generation.

I think (and hope!) the Richard Leadbetter is using better sources than this board!

He goes on to say he has hard evidence of the RAM config (4 GBs GDDR5, 512 MBs reserved - at least a half-way reasonable OS consumption in this one!). And graphics level is Radeon 7970M.

As suggested way back, this gen may be aiming for a more economical platform designed to be cost effective at launch and offer returns on die shrinks in a way a monster platform probably couldn't. Perhaps they are both a little too early for stacked RAM, which is a shame. But then if Sony can move to that, I think we're looking at GDDR5 only for launch units.

One thing of interest is mention of custom hardware in Orbis too. I hope it's something reasonably substantial, just so we have some decent architectural differences to argue over for the next generation.

Is that technically possible? Can you exactly match GDDR5 performance profile without breaking existing titles and ensure there isn't an inherent performance advantage (eg less dropped frames) in titles on the shrunk hardware?

I should also note his 7970M numbers are wrong. It's a 100W card. You can take out the dissipation for the RAM, but you have to add it right back in because you're using GDDR5 in the console.

 

[babybumb]

Dosent seem like ps360 at all. Much bigger difference

 

[Gipsel]

According to Leadbetter the "special sauce" is nothing else than a couple of shaders that are dedicated to GPGPU.

So probably nothing more than GCN's ACEs (Asynchronous Compute Engines) explicitly exposed to devs. I would be really surprised, if the "dedicated" GPGPU CUs can't be utilized by usual (graphics) shaders.

 

[Ruskie]

Sweetvar26 was pretty much spot on I see.

 

[Carl B]

I think (and hope!) the Richard Leadbetter is using better sources than this board!

He goes on to say he has hard evidence of the RAM config (4 GBs GDDR5, 512 MBs reserved - at least a half-way reasonable OS consumption in this one!). And graphics level is Radeon 7970M

It speaks to my cynicism.

Everything he says of course makes sense, but when you reverse engineer an explanation, anything can. But, should these numbers end up being near the truth - and actually I don't doubt we're getting close at this point - it would be plenty in line with what one could have expected given their design goals when the project launched.

 

[AlNom]

I should also note his 7970M numbers are wrong. It's a 100W card. You can take out the dissipation for the RAM, but you have to add it right back in because you're using GDDR5 in the console.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_HD_7xxxM_Series

75W is what's listed for the chip.

 

[JasonLD]

Some rumors mentioned an audio DSP for Orbis.

Let's see the compute units ! Why not describe it since the other specs are revealed ? 8^/

Article also doesn't cover the controller and camera accessory.

I think something major is coming up in terms of accesories and controller and there are better reasons to hide them under wraps than actual specs.

 

[McHuj]

So probably nothing more than GCN's ACEs (Asynchronous Compute Engines) explicitly exposed to devs. I would be really surprised, if the "dedicated" GPGPU CUs can't be utilized by usual (graphics) shaders.

I was speculating that maybe the reason that they are not part of the graphics pipeline is that they have cache coherency with the CPU something like a 4 Core Jaguar module + 1 dedicated CU. Could be an interesting setup.

 

[Carl B]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_HD_7xxxM_Series

75W is what's listed for the chip.

Selective binning, downclocking, and/or undervolting can always reduce that number as well if needed.

 

[AlNom]

More selective than is already done for mobile parts? Well, if the GPU ends up being 800MHz vs 850MHz, that's another thing helping. The 18CU vs 20 CU is already covered.