WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?

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The catch to both SNES and N64 is that they were both newer than their direct competitors, both by at least a year. As such, their inability to outclass their older peers across the board tells volumes about how Nintendo doesn't spend heavy on top-notch tech. It's not like the SNES CPU or N64's software audio are horribly complex issues that were just unable to be solved. Quite the contrary. I wonder if SNES rivals N64 in audio capability? :)

N64's audio quality was quite a disappointment, I often thought, hey that music would have sounded tons better on SNES (whereas it was more like bad MIDI on the 64).
For digital sound effects and voices, the sampling was sometimes very low (see Mission Impossible), and lowish in general. that can't be blamed on the sound hardware (or lack of) but a SNES could do better if given better source material I think..
 
I wonder how games like StarFox would be emulated on the Wii console (I know some of the music is actually timed with certain slowdowns, and even emulating it on a PC had been a problem).
 
I guess if Nintendo had put out a very powerful system that also had the new controller,the bulk of the resources for game development would have gone to the standard development practices..better graphics,bigger games in general. Wiimote development would have taking a back seat and we would mostly see current genres using the Wiimote in very standard ways like we are seeing mostly now.
That's ok in the beginning to get things going but eventually Nintendo has to really assert it's difference by showing innovation in regards to control and gameplay.

Innovation takes time, and risk. The Wiimote will take time and experimentation to come up with new ways to use it. By giving devs a cheaper system that they are very fimilair with it means they can take more time with experimenting with the Wiimote and take more risk in putting out games that might not do it.That's my theory on one reason why they went with the Wii as it is.
I guess I look at it like a scale that you are trying to balance. On the one side Nintendo added weight(risk, cost) by adding something so new with the Wiimote,they felt they had to remove some wieght on the other side to rebalance the development equation.
Not only devs but consumers are more likely to take and chance and try something new when the financial commitments are less.
 
Most carts had a co-processor inside to help the machine out. Even Pilotwings, a near-launch title, had a DSP inside.

Whoa, there. That is not true. only 59 or 57(I counted them manually with these wikipedia articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-DD1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_SA-1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSP-1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C4_chip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_FX I may have accidentally counted two extra due to losing track of the numbers for a moment.) games had the chips. Approximately 800 or more SNES games were released without chips.
 
Actually that was a podcast and matt also claimed it couldn't do normal mapping which we know GC can. Lastly info was taken from dev kit source that wasn't final for reference.
 
I am both proud and ashamed at the same time. this thread has stayed on the front page consistantly, it has got to be the largest one I've ever done probably because of the way i titled it and yet, we know almost nothing about the Hollywood GPU. One can only make speculations based on what our eyes see on the screen in Wii games.... and many of them started as Gamecube projects or on Gamecube dev kits. I suppose we could call Hollywood a Dolphin~Gamecube GPU with some of performance that was taken out as Nintendo downgraded the Flipper, or as we percieved a downgrade to Flipper, for those of us that watched Dolphin's developement very closely, reading every article and message board on the subject in 1999, and I am not just talking about the clockspeed of Flipper going from 202.5 MHz to 162 Mhz, but the overall polygon pushing power reported, unoffically, for Dolphin, about 20 to 30 million textured, lit and fully featured polygons per second. Flipper was also expected to have 8 pixel pipelines with TMU since we knew at the time that Graphics Synthesizer had 16 with no TMU. not only that but Flipper was reported (not just expected) to have at least 8 MB of embedded 1T-SRAM and upto 16 MB.


Even when Gamecube was revealed with lower specifications in August 2000, it still had yet to go through the final downgrades to Flipper core clockspeed and all of the bandwidths of the entire architechure, as well as slightly higher latency. not only that, but Gamecube's controller was pretty ordinary, even if refined. there were absolutely zero sensory controls at all, something widely expected/reported for Dolphin -- even SEGA expressed worry that Nintendo would surpass them with sensory controls that would change gameplay completely. and now you see what I'm getting at, Wii is, in a somewhat unexpected form, what the old Dolphin was believed to be in essense. some might completely disagree with me, maybe because you didn't read Dolphin news, speculation day and night like some people did in 1999 and 2000.

Wii technology is pretty old then. it's really pretty much refined versions of late 1990s tech, even if though its specific parts were designed this decade. that's ok. i'm not knocking it. I'm excited about what Wii can achieve. not in graphics, (the subject of this thread), but for gaming, and to reverse Nintendo's ever-shrinking share of the global console market. if Nintendo can do that with non-cutting edge technology, they're alot smarter than we are, even if we want more graphics, more processing power, more everything. Wii is probably has the least technologically advanced chipset for a Nintendo console for its time the Famicom's PPU (picture processing unit) was pretty damn advanced for 1983. the SNES PPU was also advanced for 1990, as was the RCP in 1996 and even the Flipper in 2001. Hollywood, not so, but Nintendo has completely shifted directions, something that's been said many times since Revolution was announced in May 2004.


/sunday afternoon ramblings.
 
Actually that was a podcast and matt also claimed it couldn't do normal mapping which we know GC can. Lastly info was taken from dev kit source that wasn't final for reference.

GC cant do normal mapping (in real game conditions) like ERP explained why before, yet it can do some similar tech like the bump mapping from RL or the poly bump from crytek.

Anyway if Wii can really do normal mapping it is nice to know the GPU had been upgraded.
 
I am both proud and ashamed at the same time. this thread has stayed on the front page consistantly, it has got to be the largest one I've ever done probably because of the way i titled it and yet, we know almost nothing about the Hollywood GPU. One can only make speculations based on what our eyes see on the screen in Wii games.... and many of them started as Gamecube projects or on Gamecube dev kits. I suppose we could call Hollywood a Dolphin~Gamecube GPU with some of performance that was taken out as Nintendo downgraded the Flipper, or as we percieved a downgrade to Flipper, for those of us that watched Dolphin's developement very closely, reading every article and message board on the subject in 1999, and I am not just talking about the clockspeed of Flipper going from 202.5 MHz to 162 Mhz, but the overall polygon pushing power reported, unoffically, for Dolphin, about 20 to 30 million textured, lit and fully featured polygons per second. Flipper was also expected to have 8 pixel pipelines with TMU since we knew at the time that Graphics Synthesizer had 16 with no TMU. not only that but Flipper was reported (not just expected) to have at least 8 MB of embedded 1T-SRAM and upto 16 MB.

That GPU had really existed or it is like the 1Tflop Cell and the Cell GPU that we "heard" a few years ago? I mean even just the flipper with 8MB of Edram would take a a chip ~twice as big as flipper (about 240mm^) not even counting all the extra logic for the double of pipes and vertex shaders (that would made it at probably at least 4x as big).

Anyway here can I find more info about the dolphin (features, CPU, performance), I didnt followed it but from what you say it seems that it would be (maybe with less edram) a very nice chip for wii (given the 200-250 price point), specially if the CPU (info please) is in line with the GPU? Personally that really seems exactely what I would like to have on Wii (if it is what I am thinking about).
 
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GC cant do normal mapping (in real game conditions) like ERP explained why before, yet it can do some similar tech like the bump mapping from RL or the poly bump from crytek.

Anyway if Wii can really do normal mapping it is nice to know the GPU had been upgraded.

Yeah I know that though I thought it was due to a lack of ram, and are you refereing to embm or something else that RL does? Either way matt was proven wrong on this with THDJ and midway saying that rampage would feature normal mapping as you can see in a several screenshots.
 
Yeah I know that though I thought it was due to a lack of ram, and are you refereing to embm or something else that RL does? Either way matt was proven wrong on this with THDJ and midway saying that rampage would feature normal mapping as you can see in a several screenshots.

I thought they are doing just emboss mapping in those games, anyway I as refering to Factor 5 implementation.
 
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I was wondering. With the recent announcement that Zelda could have downloadable content, would it be possible getting something like a texture pack? I mean, if you can download, say a new level or something, then it should be possible, right?
 
Given the huge difference in capacity between the Wii game disk and the Wii flash memory, I can't see any chance for a downloadable update to make a significant improvement to the game graphics

Remember that Zelsa: TP is not a Wii game, is a GC game with GC requirements, so downloadable content should be posible using the flash memory.
 
Remember that Zelsa: TP is not a Wii game, is a GC game with GC requirements, so downloadable content should be posible using the flash memory.
I think thejeeks point was to do with the size of the download as determined by disk size. As a GC game, ZTP is going to be 1.5 GB in size. Let's say a third of that is textures. That's 500 MB of textures. If you want to quadruple texture resolution for Wii, you'd need 2 GB of textures. Where are you going to store that? It'd be possible on disc. They could do a ZTP for Wii on DVD with extra textures. As a download though, as you downloaded the data per level or something odd, I don't see that there's anywhere to store larger textures.
 
Did anyone else check out the Need for Speed: Carbon video over at IGN? There's a nice headlight effect that looks a little better than what we saw in the PS2 games IIRC. But I didn't play this series at all, really.
 
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