What rendering tricks might RSX employ?

[Laa-Yosh]

I still have a hard time believing that Cell was doing all the rasterization and texture filtering in that demo, especially as they had a GF6800 sitting in that devkit...

 

[Titanio]

I still have a hard time believing that Cell was doing all the rasterization and texture filtering in that demo, especially as they had a GF6800 sitting in that devkit...

It was purely a tech demo, apparently (Edge's coverage on PS3's unveiling stressed this a couple of times). They reused assets from the PS2 games in fact (and that's evident, I think, despite how good it looks - a product of great lighting, better texturing and post-processing, I guess)..if they were making a game, I doubt you'd see that.

 

[Thegameman]

mckmas8808
Senior Member

Lets just be honest Thegameman the Xbox blew away the PS2 and GC in the graphics department. It wasn't even close. Yes some games on both system did what they were meant to do but most couldn't compare.

I don't think we will see any titles using a fp32 hdr anytime soon. I believe that it will cause a massive bandwidth hit .

Yeah well, kind of a contradiction. If the best games on PS2 and Cube are on par with the best X-box games. Then the X-box must be even more grossly untapped than even the PS2. And if you believe the Kakizo(think that right) guys bloq-like page. Then the cell alone is akin to a few PS2 crammed on a chip. Come on people, if Sony was truly NOT blowing smoke up our collective asses in saying that the Getaway demo was running wholly on cell. Then to me this whole eDRAM thing is a moot point.

On the PS2, developers could use the 2MB on the PS1 shrunken down chipset on the motherboard. Now, if the same holds true, and you have shrunken down chipset , WITH eDRAM, in theory, developers can use that as a back frame buffer cant they.

Not to beat the Geo-texturing dead horse, not to mention what Shiney is doing. Normal-mapping, 1500 enemies on-screen at once, HMMMMMMM. Think people, clearly alot of you do not know as much as you pretend too.

For the Cube and X-box versions, can the same be said, can they fit all those enemies onscreen at once. XDR RAM is way faster than the other RAM. I believe SOny will make that minor adjustment , since Samsung made that better albeit smaller XDR on a smaller die. If that is the case, cant the other Ram be used as a backframe buffer. Cause the eDRAM thing really gettin on my nerve. Cause every X-block <bleep> hinging every damn thing on it.

Lastly................... it;s said many developers moved x360 projects to PS3. My guess they know more than us.
My two cents

The real problem with the xbox was,that MS lie about the specs of the console,reason why i say all can't be trusted they make a big error saying the xbox would push 300 million polygons,and then change it saying that they calculated bad,but that even that the number was now 125 million not 300 they still say that they get 3 times the performance of the PS2,which by PS2 most graphical games you can see is and open lie,much like the toy story graphics.


The PS2 has alot of power but is extremely dificult to get it,if it was as easy as the xbox the diference would not be that big,cuz MS did tell a few lies about the specs in hopes of doing to the Sony,what Sony did to Sega.



I wan to see all of them running to clearly see the picture of who's games look better.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

It was purely a tech demo, apparently (Edge's coverage on PS3's unveiling stressed this a couple of times). They reused assets from the PS2 games in fact (and that's evident, I think, despite how good it looks - a product of great lighting, better texturing and post-processing, I guess)..if they were making a game, I doubt you'd see that.

It's not about being a techdemo or not. Applying bilinear filtering to those textures for example is IMHO far too much for a CPU, even if it's called Cell.

It's probably a misunderstanding, though.

 

[cthellis42]

this just in...................

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/13/news_6127392.html

Someday someone is going to say "yeah, we think the other guys' approach will work better" on their unreleased product, and my feeble mind is going to shatter.

 

[Titanio]

It's not about being a techdemo or not. Applying bilinear filtering to those textures for example is IMHO far too much for a CPU, even if it's called Cell.

It's probably a misunderstanding, though.

Perhaps, though I was simply pointing out that as it was just a tech demo made the "only on Cell" claim somewhat more credible. If this was a game in development, I doubt they'd be tinkering with full-rendering on Cell.

Chatani was pretty specific in his comments, which makes me doubt he was misunderstanding things. Maybe he was misinformed. Clarification in another interview would be greatly helpful here!

 

[mckmas8808]

Chatani was pretty specific in his comments, which makes me doubt he was misunderstanding things. Maybe he was misinformed. Clarification in another interview would be greatly helpful here!

With all total due respect Titanio you and I know that Chatani was specific and know that he the CTO wasn't misinformed. Laa-Yosh it there may be alot of more things that you may find a hard time believing. I think if you take what Phil also said we can get a better understanding.

Eurogamer: Was most of what we saw really just showing off the graphics capabilities - stretching the RSX graphics part rather than the Cell chip? The assumption is that Cell is there for complex physics and AI...

Phil Harrison: You're right; obviously Cell allows you to do complex collisions, physics, dynamics, simulations, all of those things. Though, the Getaway demo was a good example of how you can have a living city brought to life as a result. Although it was pretty graphics, most of that power was actually Cell-based.

I can't remember what was in the vid, but some of the shots are in the shade:

Here you go Titanio here's the video to help out.

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/...e/614/614842/sonycon_demos_getaway_wmvlow.wmv


And he does say at the end that the demo uses HDR. How much who knows, but whatever the amount was is good for me.

 

[talyn99]

Thegameman
Member


Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Some were.
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:28 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

talyn99 wrote:
Quote:
mckmas8808
Senior Member

Lets just be honest Thegameman the Xbox blew away the PS2 and GC in the graphics department. It wasn't even close. Yes some games on both system did what they were meant to do but most couldn't compare.

I don't think we will see any titles using a fp32 hdr anytime soon. I believe that it will cause a massive bandwidth hit .







Yeah well, kind of a contradiction. If the best games on PS2 and Cube are on par with the best X-box games. Then the X-box must be even more grossly untapped than even the PS2. And if you believe the Kakizo(think that right) guys bloq-like page. Then the cell alone is akin to a few PS2 crammed on a chip. Come on people, if Sony was truly NOT blowing smoke up our collective asses in saying that the Getaway demo was running wholly on cell. Then to me this whole eDRAM thing is a moot point.

On the PS2, developers could use the 2MB on the PS1 shrunken down chipset on the motherboard. Now, if the same holds true, and you have shrunken down chipset , WITH eDRAM, in theory, developers can use that as a back frame buffer cant they.

Not to beat the Geo-texturing dead horse, not to mention what Shiney is doing. Normal-mapping, 1500 enemies on-screen at once, HMMMMMMM. Think people, clearly alot of you do not know as much as you pretend too.

For the Cube and X-box versions, can the same be said, can they fit all those enemies onscreen at once. XDR RAM is way faster than the other RAM. I believe SOny will make that minor adjustment , since Samsung made that better albeit smaller XDR on a smaller die. If that is the case, cant the other Ram be used as a backframe buffer. Cause the eDRAM thing really gettin on my nerve. Cause every X-block <bleep> hinging every damn thing on it.

Lastly................... it;s said many developers moved x360 projects to PS3. My guess they know more than us.
My two cents





The real problem with the xbox was,that MS lie about the specs of the console,reason why i say all can't be trusted they make a big error saying the xbox would push 300 million polygons,and then change it saying that they calculated bad,but that even that the number was now 125 million not 300 they still say that they get 3 times the performance of the PS2,which by PS2 most graphical games you can see is and open lie,much like the toy story graphics.


The PS2 has alot of power but is extremely dificult to get it,if it was as easy as the xbox the diference would not be that big,cuz MS did tell a few lies about the specs in hopes of doing to the Sony,what Sony did to Sega.



I wan to see all of them running to clearly see the picture of who's games look better.

Splinter cell and SC3 were impressive. BUt MS lied a whole lot more than Sony ever did. Inflated math jargon at it;s finest. there is a page that broke down all 3 systems very very well. Iw ill try to find it.

I need that link, the link for that new chip they(SOny) made for their WEGA brand TV's. If anyone got it, paste it up here. Have a question about that, that I iwll post at another time.

 

[jvd]

Lastly................... it;s said many developers moved x360 projects to PS3. My guess they know more than us.
My two cents

this is what we heard 6 years ago with the dreamcast .

 

[Avon_Implosion]

mckmas8808
Senior Member

Lets just be honest Thegameman the Xbox blew away the PS2 and GC in the graphics department. It wasn't even close. Yes some games on both system did what they were meant to do but most couldn't compare.

I don't think we will see any titles using a fp32 hdr anytime soon. I believe that it will cause a massive bandwidth hit .

Yeah well, kind of a contradiction. If the best games on PS2 and Cube are on par with the best X-box games. Then the X-box must be even more grossly untapped than even the PS2. And if you believe the Kakizo(think that right) guys bloq-like page. Then the cell alone is akin to a few PS2 crammed on a chip. Come on people, if Sony was truly NOT blowing smoke up our collective asses in saying that the Getaway demo was running wholly on cell. Then to me this whole eDRAM thing is a moot point.

On the PS2, developers could use the 2MB on the PS1 shrunken down chipset on the motherboard. Now, if the same holds true, and you have shrunken down chipset , WITH eDRAM, in theory, developers can use that as a back frame buffer cant they.

Not to beat the Geo-texturing dead horse, not to mention what Shiney is doing. Normal-mapping, 1500 enemies on-screen at once, HMMMMMMM. Think people, clearly alot of you do not know as much as you pretend too.

For the Cube and X-box versions, can the same be said, can they fit all those enemies onscreen at once. XDR RAM is way faster than the other RAM. I believe SOny will make that minor adjustment , since Samsung made that better albeit smaller XDR on a smaller die. If that is the case, cant the other Ram be used as a backframe buffer. Cause the eDRAM thing really gettin on my nerve. Cause every X-block <bleep> hinging every damn thing on it.

Lastly................... it;s said many developers moved x360 projects to PS3. My guess they know more than us.
My two cents

where'd you hear about that? :/

 

[talyn99]

Oh my Bad, proof, you guys need it. Let me see, I have it in at least 2 magazines of mine. BUT, I will see if I can find a link for you guys, so sorry. But it is what it is..............

 

[typoEDR]

The second-last EGM, I believe, had that as a rumour (Q-Mann). There are other sources too, but I'm tired and thus will go to sleep.

 

[jvd]

Well they said elder scrolls 4 oblivion was canceled for the ps3 because of no hardrive .

So i think its the same for sony. Some game devs just move on to other formats for other reasons , money from the companys ,better deals or whatever

 

[Inane_Dork]

Oh my Bad, proof, you guys need it. Let me see, I have it in at least 2 magazines of mine. BUT, I will see if I can find a link for you guys, so sorry. But it is what it is..............

Is it the one where the guy said that devs were jumping ship because the PS3 was so dramatically more powerful than the 360? If so, well, I think the veracity of it can be adequately challenged.

 

[passby]

Lastly................... it;s said many developers moved x360 projects to PS3. My guess they know more than us.
My two cents

this is what we heard 6 years ago with the dreamcast .

Um? It is going to share the DC's fate ...?

 

[jvd]

Um? It is going to share the DC's fate ...?

no dc got plenty of great games , some of the best from that generation

 

[marconelly!]

To to bring this thread back at least partially on topic, can someone give a reasonalbe guess of how many FLOPs RSX would be capable of (real, shader flops, not 'NVFLOPs' of course). Xenos should have 480 FLOPs per cycle (48 * (8+2)), which is 240GFLOPs/sec.

Well they said elder scrolls 4 oblivion was canceled for the ps3 because of no hardrive.

Who said that, and where? I wasn't aware that the game was ever announced for PS3 in the first place.

 

[Avon_Implosion]

To to bring this thread back at least partially on topic, can someone give a reasonalbe guess of how many FLOPs RSX would be capable of (real, shader flops, not 'NVFLOPs' of course). Xenos should have 480 FLOPs per cycle (48 * (8+2)), which is 240GFLOPs/sec.

Well they said elder scrolls 4 oblivion was canceled for the ps3 because of no hardrive.

Who said that, and where? I wasn't aware that the game was ever announced for PS3 in the first place.

during the interviews with the devs (think it was in a GMR mag) there were some minor hints that it would eventually reach the PS3; however, no one knew when or what form it may be in.
in any case, dropping the port due to the lack of a standard HDD sounds fairly plausible

 

[gosh]

The second-last EGM, I believe, had that as a rumour (Q-Mann). There are other sources too, but I'm tired and thus will go to sleep.

EGM also said "There will be NO Backward compatible games on Xbox 360 from the original"

so i would take what they say with a grain of salt

 

[jvd]

Who said that, and where? I wasn't aware that the game was ever announced for PS3 in the first place.

it was strongly hinted at for a long time and the lack of hardrive is what killed it . From how i understand it they were waiting on sony to confirm the hardrive and the word they got was no and the scrapped before e3 .


Its a shame cause it should be a stunning and fun game that ps3 users will miss out on .

But they most likely needed the hardrive for stuff