Value of consoles versus PC, post PS5Pro edition *spawn

[Cappuccino]

According to DF HDR on PC is broken in most games, especially if you is windows which probably cannot even use HDR correctly in the first place

HDR on Windows is likely the exact same implementation as on Xbox in like 99% of games. On top of that you get unlimited AutoHDR and stuff like RTX HDR. What issues have you had on PC with HDR?

I find the console vs windows argument hilarious from a guy with Xbox in his username considering Xbox is just a custom Windows computer. Any problem with Windows (overhead, bad updates, HDR issues) is almost certainly also a problem on Xbox behind the scenes.

 

[QPlayer]

HDR on Windows is likely the exact same implementation as on Xbox in like 99% of games. On top of that you get unlimited AutoHDR and stuff like RTX HDR. What issues have you had on PC with HDR?

I find the console vs windows argument hilarious from a guy with Xbox in his username considering Xbox is just a custom Windows computer. Any problem with Windows (overhead, bad updates, HDR issues) is almost certainly also a problem on Xbox behind the scenes.

Updates aren't as convenient or fast on PC as they are on Xbox. On consoles, most updates are only a few GB, while on PC you often have to re-download the entire game size, which takes about ten times as long. There are many examples of this today.

HDR has been great and automatic on consoles since the beginning, but on PC until recently it was problematic to set up/support and didn't deliver the same quality. Since then, anything is possible, but I'm not sure.

Does anyone want to say that if someone wants to play their games in the best possible quality on PC today, then there is nothing to do? e.g. these days there is never a driver update/problem, or a claim due to image stuttering?

 

[Albuquerque]

Updates aren't as convenient or fast on PC as they are on Xbox. On consoles, most updates are only a few GB, while on PC you often have to re-download the entire game size, which takes about ten times as long. There are many examples of this today.

Provide such examples of a PC game requiring an entire re-download of the game in order to defend your statement.

As an avid Steam gamer, I can tell you unequivocally that my library of about 250 Steam games have never once re-downloaded an entire game for a single patch. And for at least a decade, Steam has been patching games in the background while I'm still playing games in the foreground, It can also be patching games while I'm not playing games at all.

I can't speak to the rest of your post, but I'm very familiar with patching mechanisms and behavior on both Windows and Linux platforms.

 

[snc]

Richard about pc comparable to ps5pro

 

[QPlayer]

.

 

[QPlayer]

Provide such examples of a PC game requiring an entire re-download of the game in order to defend your statement.

As an avid Steam gamer, I can tell you unequivocally that my library of about 250 Steam games have never once re-downloaded an entire game for a single patch. And for at least a decade, Steam has been patching games in the background while I'm still playing games in the foreground, It can also be patching games while I'm not playing games at all.

I can't speak to the rest of your post, but I'm very familiar with patching mechanisms and behavior on both Windows and Linux platforms.

Forza Motorsport. Just the other day I read on the Forza forum that a player using the PC version cost more than a hundred gigabytes to update, which means he had to download almost the entire game again, they said this happens regularly. While those of us who update on a console always only have a few GB of files to download.

Furthermore, all updates are done automatically on the console, even when it is switched off (standby), without even a single click.

 

[Remij]

“Boil it down to basics, and the PS5 Pro is a $200 premium for a GPU upgrade”

It is normal for PC to get a free additional 1TB 7GB/sec SSD storage ?

I've got about 450 free games from Epic Game Store totalling in price from anywhere between $7000-$11,000.

Is that normal on console? lol

 

[pjbliverpool]

Updates aren't as convenient or fast on PC as they are on Xbox. On consoles, most updates are only a few GB, while on PC you often have to re-download the entire game size, which takes about ten times as long. There are many examples of this today.

As noted by @Albuquerque this is total rubbish. Games on PC download and install the relevant patch, they do not re-download the entire game. It's entrely possible for a patch on PC to be larger than a patch on console (and vice versa) if they are updating different aspects of the game. But there is nothing fundamentally different about the way PC's apply patches to consoles.

HDR has been great and automatic on consoles since the beginning, but on PC until recently it was problematic to set up/support and didn't deliver the same quality. Since then, anything is possible, but I'm not sure.

Only on Xbox Series consoles. HDR has to be implemented specifically by game developers on PS5/Pro which is very often not the case. The PC has also had the same auto HDR functionality for more than 2 years and the (by most accounts) superior RTX HDR more recently. Yes the Xbox had it first, but this topic isn't about whether consoles offered better value than PC in the past, it's about the value proposition now (actually in November) once the Pro launches.

Does anyone want to say that if someone wants to play their games in the best possible quality on PC today, then there is nothing to do? e.g. these days there is never a driver update/problem, or a claim due to image stuttering?

Most games these days will auto set their own settings to something comfortably within the host PC's capabilities assuming that PC exceeds the minimum specs required to run the game. It's true that those settings won't usually be fully optimal and the user can tweak things for better results as per their preference (a huge advantage for PC gaming IMO) but if you have an RTX 4080 for example, 99 times out of 100 you can just load up the game and play it without worrying about settings if that is your preference and you'll be getting a better than console experience.

As to driver updates, I don't know how AMD handles it these days but GeForce experience will download the latest drivers for you in the background and inform you in the system tray when one is available. You then have the choice to install it if you wish with a couple of mouse clicks, or leave it an carry on with your existing driver. Would you care to explain what you find so terribly difficult about that?

Furthermore, all updates are done automatically on the console, even when it is switched off (standby), without even a single click.

True. There is an extremely minor advantage to the consoles there in ease of use vs having to click "Update now and Shutdown" instead of "Shutdown" once month or so, and having to click the "Install New Driver" button in Geforce experience every few weeks and wait the 60 seconds or so it takes to install.

Are you seriously planning to hang your entire "PC's way too complex, consoles much better" argument off those points?

 

[QPlayer]

As noted by @Albuquerque this is total rubbish. Games on PC download and install the relevant patch, they do not re-download the entire game. It's entrely possible for a patch on PC to be larger than a patch on console (and vice versa) if they are updating different aspects of the game. But there is nothing fundamentally different about the way PC's apply patches to consoles.



Only on Xbox Series consoles. HDR has to be implemented specifically by game developers on PS5/Pro which is very often not the case. The PC has also had the same auto HDR functionality for more than 2 years and the (by most accounts) superior RTX HDR more recently. Yes the Xbox had it first, but this topic isn't about whether consoles offered better value than PC in the past, it's about the value proposition now (actually in November) once the Pro launches.



Most games these days will auto set their own settings to something comfortably within the host PC's capabilities assuming that PC exceeds the minimum specs required to run the game. It's true that those settings won't usually be fully optimal and the user can tweak things for better results as per their preference (a huge advantage for PC gaming IMO) but if you have an RTX 4080 for example, 99 times out of 100 you can just load up the game and play it without worrying about settings if that is your preference and you'll be getting a better than console experience.

As to driver updates, I don't know how AMD handles it these days but GeForce experience will download the latest drivers for you in the background and inform you in the system tray when one is available. You then have the choice to install it if you wish with a couple of mouse clicks, or leave it an carry on with your existing driver. Would you care to explain what you find so terribly difficult about that?



True. There is an extremely minor advantage to the consoles there in ease of use vs having to click "Update now and Shutdown" instead of "Shutdown" once month or so, and having to click the "Install New Driver" button in Geforce experience every few weeks and wait the 60 seconds or so it takes to install.

Are you seriously planning to hang your entire "PC's way too complex, consoles much better" argument off those points?

For me, the PC keyboard is already considered an outdated thing since smartphones have been around.

I know that PC gaming has become simpler in recent years. However, no matter how incredible it is, an average person who just wants to play the game still complains if an update window pops up out of nowhere on the screen from time to time and he has to choose what and how... Many people don't understand this, and many people just want to play, which the console interface always does better will be able to provide.

Regardless, I wrote in another topic today that the console will probably be merged with the PC in the future. However, there will also be a console simplified interface with simplified functions if someone just wants to play.

 

[XboxKING]

The main issue is that ps5 pro will run games better than the devices of 99% of the people posting here

 

[Remij]

Updates aren't as convenient or fast on PC as they are on Xbox. On consoles, most updates are only a few GB, while on PC you often have to re-download the entire game size, which takes about ten times as long. There are many examples of this today.

No, this is a misconception. Yes there can be large patches, but typically the patches are small but due to how some games require to be patched they must reserve a large amount of drive space to move/copy data around for it to be patched. Steam has UI that distinguishes the download from the storage reservation while it's patching/updating.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Provide such examples of a PC game requiring an entire re-download of the game in order to defend your statement.

I can state that - for PS4 games! Updating the PS4 version of Apex on my PS5, if I cancel a patch mid update, the next time I try to update I have to download the entire game.

That is a PS4 update though. PS5 hopefully has better download caching and resume!

As an avid Steam gamer, I can tell you unequivocally that my library of about 250 Steam games have never once re-downloaded an entire game for a single patch.

As a dev, Steam is fabulous for patching. The tools are automated. You just point them at your build and they create the right differential patches. Good job, Valve!

 

[Albuquerque]

Forza Motorsport. Just the other day I read on the Forza forum that a player using the PC version cost more than a hundred gigabytes to update, which means he had to download almost the entire game again, they said this happens regularly

As the owner of Forza Motorsport on the PC (I own several of the Forza series, thanks to Microsoft "friends and family" discounts) I can also say this is not the expected result.

Things can go wrong as mentioned above, with patches being stopped in the middle and thus corrupting some number of files which must be re-downloaded, but a complete download of the entire game is NOT a standard or regular process.

 

[Davros]

While those of us who update on a console always only have a few GB of files to download.

I have to push back on this Ive only installed 1 game from disc on a console it was a fifa game I beleive the bluray disc or whatever it is holds about 40gb and as soon as I installed it it downloaded another 40gb from the internet as if the game wasnt patched but just replaced with the later version.
ps: installing that game was a hateful experience
you can read about it here:

Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2024]

but I'd really like to have the option to plug & play games -which many of them are these days, but not all- like on a console, I disagree... A friend brought his son's xbox360 to my house and asked me to install a Fifa game for him he couldn't install it because he didn't have an internet...

forum.beyond3d.com

 

[Nisaaru]

HDR on Windows is likely the exact same implementation as on Xbox in like 99% of games. On top of that you get unlimited AutoHDR and stuff like RTX HDR. What issues have you had on PC with HDR?

I find the console vs windows argument hilarious from a guy with Xbox in his username considering Xbox is just a custom Windows computer. Any problem with Windows (overhead, bad updates, HDR issues) is almost certainly also a problem on Xbox behind the scenes.

They managed to make OS updates on XBox a background activity thing I haven't noticed anymore for years. Updates got really annoying when you're in the beta program but I left that <2018 something. In the beginning waiting for the update to get done was torture.

Only because Windows and Xbox shares some core components doesn't mean they share all the bloat Windows/PC made an art form. Don't get me wrong here I deeply dislike iPad's update process and if current MacOS(I use an older version) update still works the same it's a PoS too.

 

[Cappuccino]

Updates aren't as convenient or fast on PC as they are on Xbox. On consoles, most updates are only a few GB, while on PC you often have to re-download the entire game size, which takes about ten times as long. There are many examples of this today.

HDR has been great and automatic on consoles since the beginning, but on PC until recently it was problematic to set up/support and didn't deliver the same quality. Since then, anything is possible, but I'm not sure.

Does anyone want to say that if someone wants to play their games in the best possible quality on PC today, then there is nothing to do? e.g. these days there is never a driver update/problem, or a claim due to image stuttering?

I’ve never had to redownload an entire game to patch it. Why would this be different on console?

They managed to make OS updates on XBox a background activity thing I haven't noticed anymore for years. Updates got really annoying when you're in the beta program but I left that <2018 something. In the beginning waiting for the update to get done was torture.

Only because Windows and Xbox shares some core components doesn't mean they share all the bloat Windows/PC made an art form. Don't get me wrong here I deeply dislike iPad's update process and if current MacOS(I use an older version) update still works the same it's a PoS too.

Xbox has so much bloat that it often loses to PS5 despite theoretically having hardware closer to the PS5 Pro. It’s safe to say Xbox is running what is essentially stripped down windows.

I can see the arguments for PlayStation being leaner but you are still talking about 2019 mid range hardware.

 

[Davros]

I’ve never had to redownload an entire game to patch it. Why would this be different on console?

I have and it was on a console the only game ive ever installed on a console

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I have and it was on a console the only game ive ever installed on a console

To be fair, that's an EA thing. FIFA assumes you are going to be multiplayer and requires an EA account, and of course patches the game. I'm not sure how the install versus patch works, but once installed you wouldn't have that. If you installed from a digital copy, you (probably) wouldn't have had that either.

Games on disc can't be trusted any more. Some are just download keys without the actual game on disc, and you're likely at a huge disadvantage if you don't patch your game.

I also don't think games having to be fully downloaded on a patch is at all normal on PC, Steam or otherwise. Experiences of that are likely bugs.

 

[Nisaaru]

I’ve never had to redownload an entire game to patch it. Why would this be different on console?


Xbox has so much bloat that it often loses to PS5 despite theoretically having hardware closer to the PS5 Pro. It’s safe to say Xbox is running what is essentially stripped down windows.

I can see the arguments for PlayStation being leaner but you are still talking about 2019 mid range hardware.

Yikes, DX12+virtualised games which gives Xbox more flexibility vs. whatever Sony does isn't the bloat I'm talking about but all the background activities going in Windows the user has no freaking clue about which can do spurious things at random times and disrupt things.

 

[pjbliverpool]

For me, the PC keyboard is already considered an outdated thing since smartphones have been around.

You can type as fast on a smart phone as you can on a keyboard? Or control an FPS as well on a smart phone as you can with a mouse and keyboard?

The beauty of PC is options. If you like Keyboard and mouse for playing games, you can use it (it's it really is better for some genres), but if you prefer control pads, you can use an Xbox pad, a PS5 pad, or any number of 3rd party peripherals.

an average person who just wants to play the game still complains if an update window pops up out of nowhere on the screen from time to time and he has to choose what and how..

Understandable. But this literally. doesn't. happen. Game updates happen silently in the background just like on console. Windows updates download themselves silently in the background and won't install until the user actively selects the installation, usually as part of the regular shut down process. Driver updates (relevant only to GPU's these days) can also download themselves silently in the background and simply sit there waiting until the user goes into GeForce experience to install them.

The main issue is that ps5 pro will run games better than the devices of 99% of the people posting here

I love statements like this.... oh goody, time to break out the Steam Hardware survey results again Even if we ignore those GPU's that are roughly on par with the Pro (high end laptop GPU's, high end RDNA2 parts, 3070 level Ampere parts), we get the following breakdown of GPU's that will clearly outperform it. So you claim if will perform better than 99% of people posting on this, a hardcore gaming technology enthusiasts forum where half the posters are sporting 4090's? Well here is how the average Steam gamer would fare against the pro....

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070

2.44%​

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080

1.93%​

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti

1.26%​

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER

1.09%​

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090

0.96%​

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080

0.74%​

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti

0.71%​

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090

0.48%​

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 SUPER

0.46%​

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER

0.45%​

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX

0.40%​

That's near enough 11% of all Steam running PC's featuring a GPU that will clearly outperform the Pro. Or close to 15 million PC's (using active Steam accounts alone).

Put another way that's around 25% of the PS5's current install base... 3 months before the Pro even launches. And we're on the cusp on a new generation of GPU releases that will greatly accelerate that trend.

It's doubtful the Pro will ever hit 15 million units in it's lifetime (PS4 Pro hit about 14.5m and analysts are expecting around 13m by 2029 for the PS5 Pro) and yet there are already that many PC's out in the wild (at least) that clearly exceed it. How many more will there be by 2029 - 3 GPU generations from now?

So lets not make out that the Pro is going to make PC's that can out perform it seem like some insignificant niche market. It's actually quite the opposite.