ARM based Game Consoles on the way?

[Lurkmass]

It’s hard to follow the logic of that post though. I think you’re saying that console vendors aren’t interested in RT and ML hardware for future consoles because they want to build games for current consoles that don’t feature RT and ML. The former has nothing to do with the latter.

I don't think I've made any solid implications about future platforms if you've been following my posts more closely. I think there's a number of people here are making strawmans in my stead ...

My question to you all, is it or is it *NOT TRUE* that RT performance and AI HW will somehow matter in the context of Sony/Microsoft for the duration of this generation/cycle ? It doesn't get anymore clear than this ...

 

[trinibwoy]

My question to you all, is it or is it *NOT TRUE* that RT performance and AI HW will somehow matter in the context of Sony/Microsoft for the duration of this generation/cycle ? It doesn't get anymore clear than this ...

Why would RT performance and AI matter for current consoles that are deficient in both? Seems like a rhetorical question and not related to the topic of the thread.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

@Bold Not in the context of my post that lead down to this discussion ...

I have literally no idea what you are talking about then. Thread is about the future. xpea posted ideas about the future hardware choices. You replied about nVidia's offerings being poor value. xpea brought in RT and ML features as a consideration as these are expected to be important in a next-gen machine. You say these aren't important. Now you're saying you're not even talking about future hardware??

If you are posting about not the future, you're not going to get responses to what you're talking about, because the rest of us are talking about the future, because that's what this thread is about. Asking about the value of RT this gen can only be interpreted in this context as a projection on what future hardware will need.

I'll just sign of this post with a mod note to get people back on track.

The public does not have access to the developer portal so we can't do anything but speculate over there and did the set of developers demystify their identities to DF

I haven't met their insiders, but I'll assumes yes, DF has insiders and they aren't just making that up. If you think their professionalism not up to having integrity and just posting crap, that's your prerogative. Given their track record, I think they are proven reliable, not rushing to be first to break rumours, but following up with what they've heard from their end of the indsutry.

Anyway, to bring back the focus here...

Mod: This thread is about speculation on the viability of ARM in a new console, including what other hardware it would need be paired with and thus IHV selection. It is about future hardware - discussion of current hardware is only relevant if being used to determine requirements or project choices.

 

[Lurkmass]

I have literally no idea what you are talking about then. Thread is about the future. xpea posted ideas about the future hardware choices. You replied about nVidia's offerings being poor value. xpea brought in RT and ML features as a consideration as these are expected to be important in a next-gen machine. You say these aren't important. Now you're saying you're not even talking about future hardware??

If you are posting about not the future, you're not going to get responses to what you're talking about, because the rest of us are talking about the future, because that's what this thread is about. Asking about the value of RT this gen can only be interpreted in this context as a projection on what future hardware will need.

Again, I feel it's not all that valuable to base our entire discourse on speculation into the far future (2+ years) ...

I haven't met their insiders, but I'll assumes yes, DF has insiders and they aren't just making that up. If you think their professionalism not up to having integrity and just posting crap, that's your prerogative. Given their track record, I think they are proven reliable, not rushing to be first to break rumours, but following up with what they've heard from their end of the indsutry.

I guess we may or may not see how it'll eventually play out seeing as how Sony themselves have yet to disclose the existence of an upgraded HW system that's supposedly releasing this year ...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Again, I feel it's not all that valuable to base our entire discourse on speculation into the far future (2+ years) ...

That's what this thread is about. If you don't see value in it, why post in this thread? Post in other threads where you feel the subject matter has more value to you.

I guess we may or may not see how it'll eventually play out seeing as how Sony themselves have yet to disclose the existence of an upgraded HW system that's supposedly releasing this year ...

Yep. But the guy who leaked the details was correct about the disc-less PS5 update and the PS Portal. And the PlayStation earbuds. So at this point, one would need to side against the weight of evidence to favour doubt over belief. That's why, given these past sources success in pre-empting Sony's official reveals, the rest of us are happy to discuss new hardware on the basis of these rumours, ready to wash egg off our faces if it turns out not so. It can be accepted PS5Pro has ML upscaling, custom Tensor cores, and increased RTRT until shown otherwise, rather than vice versa.

 

[OlegSH]

dedicated ML hardware could easily be a gimmick if it doesn't contribute much to gaming

It can stack up to the PT gains indirectly through frame generation, upscaling, denoising, and similar stuff, potentially providing another 4-5x multiplier on top of the potential 20x in RT)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Discussion purged of typical nVidia versus AMD talk. This is not that thread. Discuss next-gen console choices and what options are available. For the last time, this generation is not on topic.

 

[Lurkmass]

That's what this thread is about. If you don't see value in it, why post in this thread? Post in other threads where you feel the subject matter has more value to you.

I'm only responding back to barrage of posts coming my way and there doesn't appear to be any harm going slightly off tangent ...

Edit: The thread title is composed as a question too ...

Yep. But the guy who leaked the details was correct about the disc-less PS5 update and the PS Portal. And the PlayStation earbuds. So at this point, one would need to side against the weight of evidence to favour doubt over belief. That's why, given these past sources success in pre-empting Sony's official reveals, the rest of us are happy to discuss new hardware on the basis of these rumours, ready to wash egg off our faces if it turns out not so. It can be accepted PS5Pro has ML upscaling, custom Tensor cores, and increased RTRT until shown otherwise, rather than vice versa.

Are you claiming that the origins of the disc-less PS5, PS Portal, and the upgraded PS5 can all specifically traced back to the VERY SAME identity ? If NOT then this is my problem with taking hearsay as gospel at face value since there's NO ACCOUNTABILITY for these unsubstantiated claims ...

 

[MfA]

Apple has shown that ARM based SOCs can offer huge advantages in power efficiency and scalability.

For battery rundowns of viewing Big Buck Bunny offline on repeat. Most of it is just throwing money at it, process, big SoCs, process, MCM for memory, process.

It's hardly relevant to consoles.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Are you claiming that the origins of the disc-less PS5, PS Portal, and the upgraded PS5 can all specifically traced back to the VERY SAME identity ? If NOT then this is my problem with taking hearsay as gospel at face value since there's NO ACCOUNTABILITY for these unsubstantiated claims ...

I'm not going to derail this thread any more with talk about which rumours to trust. For those who want to use the PS5Pro rumoured specs to inform their thinkings here on future hardware, they can, and those who don't can present their theories. Just avoid arguing over which beliefs one's following which bogs down the technical discussion.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

ARM Unveils "ASR" Super-Resolution Upscaler, Based on AMD FSR 2 With Impressive Performance

ARM has introduced its upscaling tech called ASR (Accuracy Super Resolution), utilizing the foundations of AMD's FSR 2.

wccftech.com

With the ARM architecture now being mainstream on the mobile platform, the firm looks to take graphical capabilities a step up by creating an upscaling solution designed solely for the platform.
...
Recently, we have witnessed companies like Apple integrating "gamer-focused" solutions into their devices to promote gaming in devices such as MacBooks and even the latest iPhone 15 series. However, ARM says that with growing performance demands, the need for adequate upscaling solutions is more important than ever, and that's where ARM's ASR (Accuracy Super Resolution) comes into play.
...
ARM says it was particularly attracted to AMD's FSR 2's open-source nature, so it decided to work with a permissive MIT license to leverage Team Red's technology. ARM says that they decided to employ the "temporal upscaling" technique, which utilizes information from multiple frames to generate one single result, which is significantly refined.

To our surprise, ARM's ASR managed to deliver up to 53% better framerates compared to native configurations with different upscaling parameters. All the results were obtained under stable temperatures, which is indeed exciting to witness.
...
Apart from that, ARM showcased the performance of their upscaling technology against AMD's FSR 2 and proved to be superior to Team Red as well, showing that the custom solution designed by the firm is thriving in the mobile ecosystem. To top it all off, ARM demonstrated ASR with the MediaTek Dimensity 9300 as well at Bistro Daylight, and the chip witnessed a significant drop in power consumption, dropping down by up to 30%.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

ARM Unveils "ASR" Super-Resolution Upscaler, Based on AMD FSR 2 With Impressive Performance

ARM has introduced its upscaling tech called ASR (Accuracy Super Resolution), utilizing the foundations of AMD's FSR 2.

wccftech.com

Nothing to do with ARM as an ISA really, it's just FSR2 optimized for how mobile GPUs work instead of high end gaming GPUs that rely heavily on compute.

 

[LiveGamer]

I thought I was responding about potential new PS hardware in my previous post but I guess I'll take a stab at your reply ...

This entire slide reads like it was created by some business suit that has no deep understanding of technology instead of a technical architect ...

NPUs as they are currently designed CAN'T be used to implement any graphics techniques and that includes AI upscaling too! The architectures that the slide does mention is so far into the future that features like "next gen DXR" might as well be entirely speculation at this point given that there's been literally no major API functionality updates/extensions so far ...

"Micropolygon rendering optimizations" ? Really ? Especially when Epic Games are moving to compute materials ?

So this statement turned out to be incorrect? Microsoft's Super Resolution is actually exclusive to the Snapdragon Elite X at the moment. I would guess it's running on the NPU?

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/microsofts-super-resolution-game-upscaling-is-limited-to-the-snapdragon

 

[Lurkmass]

So this statement turned out to be incorrect? Microsoft's Super Resolution is actually exclusive to the Snapdragon Elite X at the moment. I would guess it's running on the NPU?

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/microsofts-super-resolution-game-upscaling-is-limited-to-the-snapdragon

I mean if you want to proclaim a pyrrhic victory over a spatial upscaler with compatibility restricted to only Qualcomm's NPU implementation so far then sure ...

The gold standard or holy grail is to show a high quality temporal upscaler running on varying NPU implementations ...