Mixed Information on Consoles or How I learned to loathe PR *spin off*

London-boy said:
Didn't both companies announce new platforms without actually showing them?
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That... was the point :)

PS Meeting showed a lot of concrete stuff, just not the console. So that is why Larry was playing pedantic and doing "caveat wars." They should know that PS Meeting 2013 was a lot of content.

They detailed most of the specs and showed game footage and tech demos and lots of stuff. It was a 1.5 hour or 2 hour announcement of PS4 I can't remember how long exactly

Larry has an audience with Xbox fans, I'm not discounting this. The way in which he presents himself is disingenuous, but his target market to advertise to is the dedicated Xbox base primarily, not really beyond that. So that is what his use is for.

Rangers said:
Yes, silly me :D

I missed all those million (billions?) of posts the last few year about "OMGOSH LOOK AT THS PLAYSTATON EXCLUSIVES GRAPHIOCS!!!" too. Everywhere on the internet, such minor hole in the wall places as www.youtube.com. I had my head buried in some sand.

You may be different, and fine with Neo being 50% less powerful than Xbox Scorpio (somehow not sure I believe it though). that's cool. I didn't like One being 50% less powerful than PS4, speaking for myself..
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Take his advice and go out more. You get entirely too absorbed into this console wars stuff to evaluate anything reasonably. The sad thing is the only person you are doing a disservice to is yourself with this kind of fanboy nonsense.

There's a reason the PS4 wasn't even more powerful than it was, and why it launched at $399. Xbox mistake was only not anticipating that GDDR5 at 8 GB would be available in late 2013. Sony got lucky here to get 8 GB GDDR5. Xbox depending on DDR and ESRAM to guarantee themselves 8 GB system RAM was why PS4 ended up more powerful and with equal RAM.

The circumstance and difference in assumption of risk resulted in the specs we have today. But don't kid yourself that console performance is the only thing Sony or MS consider in developing a console.

5 years later and the same people still act the same way and get upset over silly console videogames nonsense. Do grow up.
 
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Man, I was gone for 4 days & what did I come back to? One of the greatest threads of all time. LOL Thanks for the thread!

DSoup said:
icrosoft's general manager of game publishing, Shannon Loftis, said it was up to the developer. Now he did preface this with "I don't know"
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You mean "she" right? Love Shannon, so it was disappointing to see her flub, but she did own it with this...

Clarification of a question I botched yesterday - sorry for confusion!
https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/742514933322027008
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https://twitter.com/shannonloftis/status/742761475144458240

All in all I don't see the confusion either. I already said I was forgoing the XB1S for the Scorpio. I'm still planning on buying it even with my lowly 1 year old 55" LG 1080p TV. Might take me a year or more, but I'll get it eventually. Plus, I'll have an easier time convincing the Mrs that I need another console before I need another TV. Will I see any improvements @ 1080P? Probably not, but there could be edge cases where a dev might surprise us. But there will definitely be other things like VR that will be accessible. I might want to spend money on VR before I ever buy a 4K TV.

Tommy McClain
 
AzBat said:
All in all I don't see the confusion either. I already said I was forgoing the XB1S for the Scorpio. I'm still planning on buying it even with my lowly 1 year old 55" LG 1080p TV. Might take me a year or more, but I'll get it eventually. Plus, I'll have an easier time convincing the Mrs that I need another console before I need another TV. Will I see any improvements @ 1080P? Probably not, but there could be edge cases where a dev might surprise us. But there will definitely be other things like VR that will be accessible. I might want to spend money on VR before I ever buy a 4K TV.

Tommy McClain
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I finally got around to watching the Giant Bomb interview with Phil Spencer from their Day 2 Live show where he went into depth on Scorpio. He called out a couple of areas where Scorpio will be able to make games look better on a 1080p TV. The first is games that use dynamic resolution scaling. Those games will, because of the additional power available, not have to scale down to maintain framerate so you will see a visual benefit there. The second is when connecting to a 1080p TV, the Scorpio will still render it's games at the higher resolution and then downscale them to 1080p. This will deliver a similar benefit as seen on PC with Nvidia's DSR and AMD's VSR. Nvidia have a good explanation of the benefits here. No idea if their downscalar is going to be that sophisticated, though.

He confirmed that Project Scorpio was designed to render current-gen games at 4K and mentions that part of the genesis of Project Scorpio was seeing their PC ports running at 4K. This led to them trying to figure out what the console spec would need to be to achieve those same results and that's where they came up with the 6TF number. From here they also realized that this number exceeds the min PC spec for VR, so they see an opportunity there to work with HMD manufacturers to make their headsets work with Scorpio.

A couple of other comments that I found notable are that he stated that he views the current XBOne and Scorpio as part of the same product family and that all members of the same product family should be able to run the same games and use the same peripherals (with the notable exception of VR). This leaves open the door for transitions to a new product family that breaks forward compatability (He seems to be big believer in BC, though, mentioning that he thought it was important that gamers feel that their investments in the XBox ecosystem, especially on the digital side, won't be zeroed out by hardware transitions). He also stated that the cadence of introductions of higher-spec hardware should coincide with new output targets, so the neXtBox may be designed around 120hz or 8k output. Maybe this last acknowledges that the reason these mid-gen upgrades exist is because they didn't do this with XBOne and PS4?
 
AzBat said:
Man, I was gone for 4 days & what did I come back to? One of the greatest threads of all time. LOL Thanks for the thread!
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Yes. It reads like an epic shakespearean tale about love, friendship, bromance, and brand loyalty.
 
There will always be benefits to using Scorpio, even when connected to a 1080p set. For one thing, it will downsample to a 1080p image, meaning you get to see a 1080p picture in games even if the XB1 version is rendering at much lower res like 900p or 720p. Added to this is the natural improvement that comes with downscaling from a 4k framebuffer; IQ will be exceptional, little to no jaggies, maybe better filtering, etc. Ofcourse it is always possible that games will use the extra power to present a more graphically impressive looking game at 1080p native (just like the Neo). So all in all performance will definitely be better than X1 version. Games on Scorpio will look and perform better whether you play it on a 4k tv or on a 1080p set.
 
Scott_Arm said:
What? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. Here's what they said. All games will run on Xbox One and Scorpio. If you eventually choose to upgrade to Scorpio, you take your library with you. There are no exclusives for Scorpio. This has been more clear than anything else.
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Except the VR games?

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
 
Phil Spencer said if you care about VR, get a PC. And the only reason to get scorpio is if you have a 4k tv, otherwise get a slim.

How much support VR will ever get on scorpio? And how many games will look better in 1080p on scorpio?

(I'm just playing my role here, as the king's fool and philosopher)
 
MrFox said:
Phil Spencer said if you care about VR, get a PC. And the only reason to get scorpio is if you have a 4k tv, otherwise get a slim.

How much support VR will ever get on scorpio? And how many games will look better in 1080p on scorpio?

(I'm just playing my role here, as the king's fool and philosopher)
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He never said that, only that VR innovations will be done on PC. They didn't go to the length of having Todd Howard in the announcement vid talking about Fallout VR if they are not building VR functionality in the box.

I just think he means that they (MS) will not be developing a VR headset of their own. I will not be surprise to see support for multiple VRHMD units like Occulus and Vive.
 
Rangers said:
You may be different, and fine with Neo being 50% less powerful than Xbox Scorpio (somehow not sure I believe it though). that's cool. I didn't like One being 50% less powerful than PS4, speaking for myself..
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I think the sad reality is that most people are more obsessed about the number on the spec sheet than what the number actually means in reality. It's just how the market is. Just look at the Smartphone business. MHz is still a predominant feature on any spec sheet (or the number of cores now), so are memory figures etc. I call it the inferiority syndrome. People are scared of spending hard earned money on something that according to some spec sheet is "inferior". Same with speakers - most people will focus more on the Hz range of the speaker (or watts) before they sit down and listen to which offers the better acoustics. And even then, they're more likely to buy the product that has the better spec, focusing and studying all numbers of specs like it was some obsession to convince themselves that what they are getting is better (and in the process, tell themselves that they are getting more for their money). Same goes for cars, with horsepower (or torque) figures etc. Why wouldn't it be different with consoles? You're highlighting the exact same behavior. And you know what? You sort of proved it yourself - that in the end - you still bought that Xbox One, even though on paper, it's 50% less powerful. Looking at E3 though and what has been shown, that 50% difference doesn't account for a whole lot. Yes, multiplatform games on average perform better on one console. So what? A generation before, it was the other way around and us on the PlayStation console still survived those games too.

I've always felt that the ex-Xbox or ex-PC gamer was more concerned about specs than the PlayStation user. Why? I think it has to do that PC gamers are much more tech-savy, having focused on these specs when they used to play and upgrade their computers to run the latest games. They are more fickle in that sense. Us PS owners have been used to playing on the "inferior console" for generations. The mass market I feel doesn't though and I've always felt that PlayStation brand attracts or is just more mass market. So maybe, that's why many (Xbox) gamers when the PS4 and Xbox1 were revealed, were disappointed with Microsofts efforts and thus jumped on the PlayStation bandwagon, feeling the need to get the on-paper-superior-console.

The mass market is attracted by which ever console sells better or seems to be the better package. Last generation, at least in America, that seemed to be the X360. It was also at the right price, a year early. This generation, it changed - they both launched at the same time. Maybe it was the spec sheet or maybe it was just the situation of both launching at the same time, at more or less the same price that showed who has the stronger market presence and brand-name. Maybe it was a little bit of both. When both Scorpio and Neo launch (and IMO it will be important for both equally) it will be crucial for both to show something that is better than what the PS4 and X1 already offer, or both will fail to sell convincingly. And I'm having a hard time seeing that happening, given they both will run the same software to not alienate those 40-50 million PS4 (and 20-30 million Xb1) consumers outthere. In fact, I'm rather skeptical about what these half-upgraded consoles will cause. The market in the past has showed how fickle it is with upgraded consoles that launch 'early' or mid cycle. Or maybe the market is just changing where expectation of consumers are more in line with what they are used to in the smartphone business: Evolving hardware and software and forward compatibility.
 
I'm not sure how you compare power when they launch at vastly different times. By the time MS can get the new console out the Neo might have 15m units sold and it might turn into a PS2 vs XB situation. Also the Neo will likely be $100 cheaper.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
 
I think Scorpio is just the next logical step hardware wise for MS, like they said, they listened to the criticism. Its UWP and "Play anywhere" that is riskier gamble. If i have a pc, i dont need to buy an xbox now to play their games, and i keep reading that its fine MS will still make money from me, wich is true for their own exclusives. But why should i buy GTA from the Windows store over for example Steam? Because i can play it on an xbox too if i want to? Yeah thats true, until i fire up my Xbox and realize i have to buy Xbox live for online playing wich is free on my PC.
 
Rangers said:
You may be different, and fine with Neo being 50% less powerful than Xbox Scorpio (somehow not sure I believe it though). that's cool. I didn't like One being 50% less powerful than PS4, speaking for myself..
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4.2TF / 6TF = 70%

It's 30% less powerful.
 
To be fair, people often will look at a spec sheet when they want/ need something to compare 2 models which is, supposedly, objective. That is before one reaches a ton of other motivations of course -> price/ loyalty, etc.
 
DrJay24 said:
I'm not sure how you compare power when they launch at vastly different times. By the time MS can get the new console out the Neo might have 15m units sold and it might turn into a PS2 vs XB situation. Also the Neo will likely be $100 cheaper.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
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Sure. But you could make the argument that PS4 vs XBO is PS2 vs XB. While PS4 Neo vs. XBO-T might be somewhat closer to PS3 vs. X360. :p

I say closer and not like PS3 vs. X360 just due to the fact I don't expect Sony to F-up as much as they did with the PS3. It's certainly not going to end up matching the PlayStation install base. But it definitely has the potential to close the gap.

Regards,
SB
 
Oh NOW we're splicing flops hairs LOL.

I forgot about the Neo's .2, sue me! Anyways I expect Scorpio's FLOP target could move up as well since they said 6 TF to one significant digit, which is probably rounded from something, especially if they are being cagey about the exact number to thwart possible Sony upgrades like I suspect.

Point is at a glance it's very similar to PS4/XO delta. Minus Scorpio's RAM advantage which isn't similar.

On to sales...XO S is leading June at Amazon, but only slightly. That's preorders though, which we know dont count in that month.

XBO should be able to take 1 or more months here between old stock discounts and the new S, (if it doesn't that would just be quite sad) let me point out these are slow months and I DONT REALLY CARE IT DOESNT CHANGE THINGS AT ALL before I get accused again of being that giant fanboy I obviously am.

5 years later and the same people still act the same way and get upset over silly console videogames nonsense. Do grow up
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This the same post where you call a corporate figurehead for MS disingenuous and pedantic...the irony. .
 
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