The Great DLC/F2P debate.

I have yet to pay for any microtransactions on either 360, Wii, PS3 or Xbox One. So far, I have not play any game that did not feel complete without buying them. I have never felt cheated.

I have bought some DLC expansions. Some were worth the money and some were not. In all cases they expanded upon a complete product.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with microtransactions either. It's like going to a driving range and paying per pail of golf balls, or going paintballing and buying boxes of ammo on top of your fee to use the fields and the equipment. If you don't like it, don't pay for it and find a different product that fits into your definition of value.
 
I do take some exception to the concept of in-game consumables because they are a complete fabrication. However, in a free market they are just another value-based technique to extract revenue from customers and one can refuse to buy them so if devs want to try that, they can. I'll just look on them poorly. :p
 
I do take some exception to the concept of in-game consumables because they are a complete fabrication. However, in a free market they are just another value-based technique to extract revenue from customers and one can refuse to buy them so if devs want to try that, they can. I'll just look on them poorly. :p

I suppose, in-game consumables are a bit weird. You're paying to consume something that is infinite. That's oen of the weird things about the digital generation. There is no other good or service that can be copied essentially infinitely.
 
If anything, the gold-miners from Wow/Diablo showed that there is a market for "digital goods you could get for free if you had the time". It didnt took much time till game-devs figured out to cut out the middle man.
I hate the concept of micro-transactions, but I simply blame the players for beeing so desperate in the first place.
 
If anything, the gold-miners from Wow/Diablo showed that there is a market for "digital goods you could get for free if you had the time". It didnt took much time till game-devs figured out to cut out the middle man.
I hate the concept of micro-transactions, but I simply blame the players for beeing so desperate in the first place.

Yep. EA NHL stays in business, I think, because of all of the people will to buy Ultimate Team "cards packs" and stat boosts for online play, as well as early access to the game. There are guys who drop the money for the early access, then buy all of the stat boosts to start off and it essentially costs them an extra $40, if not more. They're paying $100+ to play EA NHL each year.

I can complain, but people are willing to pay it. If they didn't the game probably wouldn't be made anymore. I'm not even sure it sells 500,000 copies.
 
And keeping this on topic, of Crytek want to do that and it works, they can. I suppose the big questions are whether they are or are not pursuing F2P, and if they do, will they fall flat on their faces?

Any tried any of their F2P games?
 
Their last game had a big emphasis on micro transactions. It was not a F2P game though; but maybe they were using it as a testbed?
 
Despite laughs, that's not true. DLC was additional content,
back online (sorta)
thats not true
see a gamasutra article when DLC came out in the first place ~6or8 years ago when publishers were expressly not releasing content when this idea first came out, google some of my posts on gamedev.com from ~2006 for info. Of course DLC is now a reality (as in removed content not added content)
 
I have yet to play a single game that both felt incomplete out of the box and was fixed by DLC.

It doesn't really matter when the expansions were planned or completed. If you pay more to get more, it's added content. If it's not worth the money, don't buy it.
 
Also, every F2P game I've played so far has been a terrible imitation of a good game that had the potential to be somewhat less terrible if you put real money in it, but still not as good as a regular $60 experience. It's not like Dust 514 is just as good as Battlefield and needs some cash infusions to really open it up. It's a really, really crappy imitation of Battlefield that becomes a crappy game with more powerful weapons and vehicles when you put money in it. War Thunder is maybe the closest I've played to something that is almost a good game, but even it is kind of garbage.

I guess Warframe isn't that bad.
 
If anything, the gold-miners from Wow/Diablo showed that there is a market for "digital goods you could get for free if you had the time". It didnt took much time till game-devs figured out to cut out the middle man.
I hate the concept of micro-transactions, but I simply blame the players for beeing so desperate in the first place.

If anything, multiplayer online games with persistent worlds have shown that there is always a small minority of people that are willing to pay exhorbitant amounts of money in order to get in game equipment, consumables, vanity items, convenience items, etc. with the least effort possible (buying "in game" money or items versus playing to get them).

From my memory this first started happening with UO and Everquest 1. Although Everquest 1 made it extremely popular. I knew people that bought cars and houses with the money they made selling characters, items, and in game currency to other players.

It is going to happen anyway. I see no reason why the company itself can't do that rather than letting their players be exposed to "gold sellers" who may or may not steal their credit card info.

Eve-Online has been doing this for years on years via their PLEX card system (players can purchase a PLEX card with real money which represents one months worth of playtime, they can then sell those in game, give them to friends, or use it themselves if they wish).

Microtransactions represents another method via which companys attempt to tap into that small minority of players that are will to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on a game in order to get things with little to no effort.

Whether the company does it or not. If there is a way for players to trade items in a game. There will always be people in those games paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for items or in game currency or even your account. Diablo 2 is a great example of that. There were lots of people that spent thousands of dollars for in game items and characters. Hence, Diablo 3 attempted to give those people a legitimate way to do that without having to resort to sellers who might steal your CC information. And in return they were unfairly blasted for it. Yay, try keep your player base safe from online scams and make a bit of profit off it and you are now more evil than the gold sellers stealing people's credit card info. :p

Anyway, that's starting to ramble a bit. Those things aren't intrinsic to the F2P model.

And keeping this on topic, of Crytek want to do that and it works, they can. I suppose the big questions are whether they are or are not pursuing F2P, and if they do, will they fall flat on their faces?

Any tried any of their F2P games?

Yes. Crytek do have at least one F2P game on the market. It is extremely popular in Russia, but hasn't caught on to nearly the same degree elsewhere. The few "let's plays" that I've seen view it as a very solid sometimes very good multiplayer FPS shooter. The main gripe that I've seen is that they had to play on Russian servers to get full games more easily. As well, it doesn't really do anything ground breaking.

I'm not sure if they have other F2P games in developement. I'd be willing to bet they do.

I think in the future more games may follow the Warframe model. They are consistently releasing new content and items. It's like a trail of bread crumbs. As soon as you feel you are running out of things to do/collect/level up they introduce new shiny toys to keep you interested. Impatient people pay money to get those things right away, while the vast majority of people are far more patient and just collect the items in game via time played.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a few of the largest PC gaming markets and potential PC gaming markets don't have a negative view of F2P as some here in these forums do.

F2P is the dominant PC gaming distribution method for games in Korea. Hell, PC gaming absolutely dominates everything else gaming related in Korea. And F2P just dominates that.

F2P is also rather huge in China. Not surprising as F2P basically sidesteps the whole piracy issue completely. And the same goes for Russia, IIRC.

It would not surprise me at all if the cash infusion for Crytek came from a Chinese, Korean or Russian source.

Regards,
SB
 
Hunt: Horrors of the Gilded Age is a F2P and and now that they have secured funds it should arrive this year on nex/this-gen consoles.
 
Despite laughs, that's not true. DLC was additional content, and has been by and large, at least on consoles. Day one DLC may annoy some people, especially when it's on disk but inaccessible, but DLC is about extending a game and making money beyond the initial purchase, which is only fair when DLC has a development cost.

It may be true partially.

Sure the good side of DLC is that the devs can keep people returning to the product and extend its replayability. This is particularly strong with games that offer multiplayer modes with many dedicated followers. Gears of War was very strong with this.

On the other hand:

When they know beforehand that DLC is a successful business model and a common trend, some will develop their projects with DLC in mind from the get go.

This gives incentives to the business to decide what to keep on disk from the start and what to cut in order to sell as DLC for extra cash.

Then there is the other aspect of it that is not unlike game patches. Devs always face huge pressure from deadlines and such. Some things may be required to get scrapped due to limited time, but in some cases devs may want to buy time. Selling some of the planned content as DLC after the official release date, relieves from pressure to have it in the Gold disk.

I am sure these happen but there isnt enough transparency to measure the extend.
 
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=65360&page=9 Is where this was inspired by. Might be useful for mods to split off posts from there and post them here.

One of the reoccurring comments I saw in that topic was games that felt complete or incomplete without the DLC. I know of a few games that need their DLC to feel truly complete. This is all IMO of course.

Payday: The Heist. The Wolf Pack DLC added a new class and some weaponry that is basically needed for many players. It was basically a balance patch sold as a DLC.

Payday 2. Yup, they did it again, but with smaller DLCs. In order to have a really good weapon, you at least need one of the DLCs. You can pick the new shotgun DLC, the weapon mod courier pack DLC, one of the two weapon packs, the sniper rifle pack, or a combination there of, like I wound up doing with money I got from selling Steam cards(Well, the mod courier pack was gifted to me after I'd spent months not playing it).

Fallout 3. The cop-out non-ending was fixed with Broken Steel, and the other DLCs add content that is, writing wise at least, better than the base game. Plus, interesting areas and new awesome gear.

Fallout: New Vegas. It just needs the DLC to feel complete, as the DLC adds storylines that were hinted at in the base game, and uses characters mentioned in them. This is more due to Bethesda fuckery than the developer(Obsidian) itself, though. A fair bit of the content had to be cut, and Bethesda decided to repurpose some of that as DLCs. The main antagonist of the last story DLC was originally going to be in the game.

Borderlands 1. Borderlands 1 had a token plot, and a too small level cap. The DLCs added actual writing for most of the DLCs, and the third one raised the level cap. A later patch, released when the fourth DLC was released, raised the level cap further if you owned that DLC, or set it to the third DLC's level cap.

Incidentally, the horse armor DLC from Oblivion was mentioned in the last topic. It actually does do something non cosmetic. It raises the horse health.
 
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Thanks for starting the new one.

/conveniently in the neighbourhood right now.
 

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If you think Fallout 3 had a paltry amount of content compared to other games without buying the DLC, you don't play that many games. Same with Borderlands.
 
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