sword of the stars/sword of the stars 2

[Malo]

The game was even featured on the Steam popup when you first load it up. Should definitely not be there.

 

[hoom]

Yes, as several have said & many agreed on the various forums:
It would have been best for them to have publicly said before the launch that its not going to be a functioning game & that purchases now would fund finishing off/fixing it up.

At the very least once the true state of the code became clear they really should have taken it off the 'ooh look whats just launched' list & or made clear that its not actually ready for people to play yet.


My pre-order physical copy has been delayed out another couple of weeks again to 25th.
I think 3rd time? Maybe more, was originally scheduled for mid Sept.

 

[tunafish]

Kerberos may have a fanbase that loves them and is willing to forgive them for this crap, but in the long run it's going to damage their business, and lose them customers.

In the long run?

Had they not released, Kerberos would probably have shuttered it's doors this month.

I'm not saying what they did was justifiable. Just saying that economically, it was an easy decision to make. When the alternative is to go kaput, everything is incidental.

The correct solution would really have been explaining the situation to their fanbase, and selling access to beta. It's even fashionable now. Heck, the fans would have flocked to their support. (Just look at NS2 -- so far, they have more or less made all the mistakes that new game devs seem to make. But thanks to ns1, they have such a huge fanbase that was, and still is, completely OK with paying them upfront for the possibility that they might actually get something playable out sometime.)

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

In the long run?

Had they not released, Kerberos would probably have shuttered it's doors this month.

I'm not saying what they did was justifiable. Just saying that economically, it was an easy decision to make. When the alternative is to go kaput, everything is incidental.

Just because you've mismanaged your company and your product, that isn't an excuse to commit fraud on your customers. "My business was going to shut down, so I sold a load of known faulty products and just hoped the customers would give me a few months to fix them" isn't really going to fly in front of a judge, but the software industry takes the piss and does this as a matter of course.

They could have been bought out, or sold themselves or got investment cash or a loan from the bank, or whatever. In any other business, they would have been reported for fraud and would have the police after them and end up in court for jail or fines.

Instead, how many people are going to buy their next game up front, or pirate it instead after this debacle? How much money is it costing them to deal with the refunds they've had to offer, and how much customer goodwill has it cost them?

Sure, they get to survive for a bit longer, but only by cheating their customers out of their hard earned cash.

 

[NRP]

I always wonder how these things can happen, from a project management standpoint. I would think the first order of business would be to have stable tech running, then iterate your art/gameplay. Kinda seems like they did the opposite. Anyway, it's too bad because it sounds like they might have a decent game in there somewhere.

 

[tunafish]

Just because you've mismanaged your company and your product, that isn't an excuse to commit fraud on your customers.

That's not what I said. In fact, I kind of agree with you.

"My business was going to shut down, so I sold a load of known faulty products and just hoped the customers would give me a few months to fix them" isn't really going to fly in front of a judge, but the software industry takes the piss and does this as a matter of course.

Here I disagree. This kind of thing is actually much more common than you think, even outside software world. One recent example near me springs to mind -- a gym operator did a large groupon offering, used the money, and went bankrupt less than 2 months in. Most of the people who bought the groupon never got anything for their money. It's not a crime, so long as he acted in good faith.

They could have been bought out, or sold themselves or got investment cash or a loan from the bank, or whatever.

At this point of game development for a niche genre, none of those is realistically available. You run out of money, you are done.

In any other business, they would have been reported for fraud and would have the police after them and end up in court for jail or fines.

BS. They sold a product. The product was a piece of crap. In many jurisdictions, the customer is entitled to a refund, but that's pretty much as far as it goes. Even if it's awful, it's still technically a game.

Instead, how many people are going to buy their next game up front, or pirate it instead after this debacle?

This here was my main point: There would never have been a next game. Had they done what they did, Kerberos studios would be naught a memory. It's remaining ip might get bought by somebody else, but when a small game dev fails (and they do fail often), there is no sensible reason for anyone to try to rescue them. If you want something from them, purchasing from the bankruptcy proceedings is much cheaper than having to cover all their existing debts. On that basis, there is no reasonable business reason to avoid doing what they did. There are valid moral reasons, but that's not what I said.

 

[hoom]

And now it gets weird:
http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22909#p348797

Re: Is There Money Enough to Pay the Bills?

Postby Mecron » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:40 am
dont be worried we are fine...and were fine. SotS2 money is not even an issue either way. I know some folks try to make it sound like this all was a some sort of evil cash plan, like everytime someone buys a game, money shoots out of tube into ours or paradox's pocket...but it really doesn't work that way. The speed of business is second only to cows and cud chewing

Now, I'm not thrilled but sort of understanding about releasing incomplete code if there was 'release & get money to finish or close up & never release' but if there was never that situation, well I'm aghast

 

[poopypoo]

Just wanted to su scribe to this thread, and voice my support for your posts, hoom. I seem to be into all the same strat titles, but don't stay nearly as devoted to them. I would probably have bought SotS2 next month and been pissed...

 

[swaaye]

Eh the only 4x game you need is MOO1 anyway. Star Wars Rebellion/Supremacy and MOO2 maybe too.

 

[hoom]

So they have released another patch on Friday, I think thats 5 in 2 weeks which is a good rate.
Still a lot to go apparently.

When I look at videos like this & this I'm gobsmacked by how much awesome there is there. (not really sure whats going on in a bunch of that )
Maybe it'll take 6mths of patches & even an expansion or two but this seems to be the game I've been waiting for since MoO2

 

[swaaye]

If it ever works mostly perfectly, post about it. I might be interested if it is a decent game after all is said and done. I don't know if you guys remember but MOO2 had a lot of problems on launch too. One I remember is how it would slow to a crawl on a Pentium 2 as turns progressed due to a bad memory leak.

 

[Gelanin]

Aye, keep us updated on the status of this.

Was close to buying it, but after reading some about the state of it, i decided to wait. But if it ever becomes playable i'll get it, afterall i really miss a good 4X game.

 

[hoom]

Well I sent an email yesterday morning asking to take them up on the offer of a free copy of SoTS1 in the meantime since my hard copy still hasn't arrived.
Got home to a reply from their main guy with key for SoTS Complete Edition (all 3 expansions)

Have only barely started but its looking very good & somewhat terrifyingly deep :smile:
3D textures & poly counts are not amazing but the interface is crisp & smooth.

Also there was a Friday patch for SoTS2 & another one on Monday.
Edit: according to Steam Update list its 10 patches already.

 

[hoom]

Hey guys.

Its been a year of patches with the game getting progressively better.
Finally the devs have announced 'all clear'
http://www.kerberos-productions.com...&t=35604&sid=65d44369b7ea17a669a7e998883d1f86

Hey folks!

Sorry for the long wait but I am extremely happy and proud to give the all clear signal and invite you all back to a bright and shiny SotS2. While “all clear” in no way means support for the game has ended or that we have no plans for additions, it does mean that the game is in the shape we would have wished it to be upon release. From here we will be going on to a regularly scheduled set of updates that continue to fill out and flesh out the SotS2 universe as well as adding new maps, scenarios and plenty of quality of life suggestions.

We would like to thank Paradox for continuing to distribute Sword of the Stars/ Sword of the stars 2 and look forward to working with them on any future expansions. We also want to issue a heartfelt thanks to the players who stood by us in those dark early months and who believed us when we said this game would be fixed. We owe a great deal to the players who stuck it out through all the dozens of updates and fixes and kept reporting the bugs and posting their saves. Their input has made for a bigger and better SotS2 than could have been achieved at release even under the best of conditions. Everyone who enjoys playing this game from this date on, owes those impromptu testers a great deal of thanks. And finally for those of you who are reading this now and booting up the game, we would like to thank you for your patience and welcome you back. There is a great game waiting for you now and a big universe waiting to be explored.

The Future:
As said, this announcement does not mean the end of SotS2 support. In fact, should any of you be curious, feel free to come by our boards and see our plans to support SotS2 indefinitely. For now, you can look forward to your next SotS2 update in approximately 3 weeks and it should include such tasty treats as:
--Selectable Teams at startup
--Revised Empire economics screen
--Even more AI tuning
--SotSpedia tuning and more entries
--And a pack of new maps.

While too far down the line for particulars, I can tell you that the following update after that should see the return of scenarios and a treat or two for the holidays!


So once again, I would like to thank you all for your patience and understanding during the road back and hope you all enjoy this game as it was meant to be!

Martin E. Cirulis
CEO/Creative Director
Kerberos Productions

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Mecron
Kerberos

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