NPD December 2010

survive and even grow.

That's something key that people need to remember when they start to declare doom and gloom. At this point all 3 consoles are solidly established and whichever one finishes last will be far from a failure. While PS3 may never recoup the investment spent to launch it, it's currently solidly profitable, IMO.

Thus, any comparisons amoung the various consoles, sales, and strategies shouldn't be overly concerned with failure at this point. Now it's all about relative levels of performance. That, of course, doesn't mean the companies themselves or the market might or might not be disappointed by the performance in certain months for hardware, software, or accessories.

Regards,
SB
 
The gap, WW speaking, is reduced even during jun-september. I know that´s difficult to accept just watching NPD numbers, but the fact is that, even in USA, Sony has sold as much consoles than las year, and this time without the spike of a price reduction.

The initial spike is not as important as the long term sustained higher demand due to a product being at a lower pricepoint. The old price reduction is helping sales today and 2010 had more months with the lower pricepoint, so it's not a surprise that it did ok compared to 2009.
 
Console sales don't exist in a vacuum. Sony has made a significant investment in the PS3 and lost at least half of its market share. MS on the other hand at least doubled its market share with a comparable investment, but even that is a mixed result, considering the costs.

I'd say the only clear success in this generation is Nintendo.
 
Every single year it's like déjà vu. right? right? ;)

Well at least now there is Kinect and PS3 piracy giving you guys fresh ammo.
Every year, at the begining of the year, the PS3 folks say "This is the year of the PS3!" A simple google search will reveal the (often Sony, and sometimes analyst) PR stating "Well, last year wasn't exactly what we wanted, but this year is our year!" for 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. At this point, I'm disinclined to believe them.

I would love to see a next generation connect with a camera with wide angles, HD Camera and HD/HDR 3D Camera in which there is more detail and it can capture further back with a stronger laser. Then add in Intel's own Light Peak instead of USB and you have a winner. Then all you need to do is add in 3D and physical feedback with a next generation xbox with DirectX 12 and 4 Gigs of ram and release it by Christmas of 2014 or 2015.
We'd all like to see that. You'd need lightpeak or USB 3 to carry all the data you're wanting this camera to send.

I'd like to see the TOF tech mature and replace the current 3d tech we use.
 
Console sales don't exist in a vacuum. Sony has made a significant investment in the PS3 and lost at least half of its market share. MS on the other hand at least doubled its market share with a comparable investment, but even that is a mixed result, considering the costs.

I'd say the only clear success in this generation is Nintendo.

I agree with you completely.

The final result for both companies will be more or less (in two-three years time) the same. Both of them have invested big amounts of resources, and the install base will probably be even worldwide speaking. The distancie will not be more than 10-20% I bet. And that´s is healthy enough to consider a retry.

Obviously they´re going to earn or lose money; in MS case the big earnings (assured) are in line with the profitability of the company, so they´re not decisive, nor negative, of course. In Sony´s case the situation is quite more complicated, so being profitable is more than an issue, but at the moment, with the hardware being profitable, their biggest problem is the software sale rate, and side by side, the piracy fact.

But if that´s not really hurting (we´ll see soon) they are in a good point to reduce the price of the basic SKU and make their SW roll, with a bigger profitability margin with the I+D costs being less important, having their game engines in good shape since some time.

So, what´s really important may be? The mindshare they´re gaining during the few years that lasts before next gen. That´s not decisive, of course, but we already know that the first year of a platform generally draw the future of it, so starting really fast and strong is more than an issue.

And that´s the most important thing for Sony now, and because of that (and because they need time and good thinking in order to "clean" and make their services and platform cohesive -the biggest fault I find in their proposal now- it´s absolutely decissive offer good games and mantain the respect that their releases have between core users.

That is, what they need now is to produce good games, explore innovations and follow the path of the casual offerings, because it´s fairly clear now that they will have to wait to next gen to change their strategy. Who will be out next, decissions about cost and performance, put their technology (generally really good) at the service of the bussiness and not just make exercises of style... Sony will have an opportunity next gen to do it.

So for me it´s pretty clear that Sony just has to reconstruct their on-line platform, offer the same services (some of them superb) just with a common idea and unifying resources (Home is a good example of spasmodic valuable offer just not integrated in the platform enough clearly), while still building up the respect that core users seem to have with their best releases (LBP, Uncharted, and the like, and decissions like the support to really die hard games like Demon´s Souls). Why? They will need them not only now, but next time.

And I really think that "next time" will have casualties. Because Sony hasn´t yet the survival instinct that Nintendo has showed with Gamecube and, to a lesser extent, Wii. So they better will be razor sharp with their offer, or the possibility of being out of the bussiness will be substantial.

And that´s a problem, because I like Sony products. They just don´t have the right framework, and vectors are not in line. Too much effort wasted in good ideas in the wrong place or time. It´s evident that being a SW company and offer a SW on-line platform is charging their toll.
 
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I find it inconsistent that we would have a US market (as opposed to a North American market), a Japanese market (as opposed to an Asian market) and then Europe, especially since the component countries that are being collectivized as Europe have so little commonality.
 
Every year, at the begining of the year, the PS3 folks say "This is the year of the PS3!" A simple google search will reveal the (often Sony, and sometimes analyst) PR stating "Well, last year wasn't exactly what we wanted, but this year is our year!" for 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. At this point, I'm disinclined to believe them.

So which years were the years of the Xbox 360? :p I guess you could say 2010 given unprecedented growth and the successful launch of both a console redesign and Kinect.
 
Console sales don't exist in a vacuum. Sony has made a significant investment in the PS3 and lost at least half of its market share. MS on the other hand at least doubled its market share with a comparable investment, but even that is a mixed result, considering the costs.

I'd say the only clear success in this generation is Nintendo.

We really don't know this yet. This generation is a long way from being over. The economy world wide is down majorly and people don't have the money that they had before this happened. So releasing a new console too soon is just not a good idea. Dropping prices on existing consoles is a much better idea.

Nintendo is sitting pretty right now with the Wii and DS, no doubt about that though. However, Microsoft is making a lot of money off of Kinect (initial cost is said to be 57 for costs for Microsoft) and they are selling it for $150.00 and the 360 this year will be 6 years old and they just went through redoing the entire console to make it much cheaper with the new console S. The two chips have been combined into one chip and at a lower nm transistor process. The motherboard doesn't use as many layers and it's much smaller in size and the only thing they added was WIFI N built in, so all of this saves tons of money for them in the long run and as the Xbox 360 gets older and Microsoft does not drop the price that much (lets say they only drop the price of the Kinect and bundle) that still gives them tons of money that they can make.

I said this before and I will say it again. All Microsoft has to do is get quality exclusive content for Kinect this year and drop the price of kinect and kinect bundles $50. So you can buy a Kinect for $99 and the bundle is $249 and people will go crazy for it this Christmas. Now the games have to be something different than what the Wii can do. Maybe Milo? I don't know at this point, but that is all they need to do and sales will outpace last Christmas.

They can also get the hardcore crowd to buy Kinect by getting exclusive quality games as well or games that are enhanced with features with Kinect.

A lot of people were right when they said that Microsoft does not have enough exclusives and I have always said that, but I do believe Kinect is that vehicle to get there for them. It gives the guys like Steve Balmer and investors the confidence to seek out quality exclusives for the platform and it enhances the 360 software platform overall.
 
So which years were the years of the Xbox 360?

Which weren't? ;)

Pretty sure they've held their core market every year since they launched.

In fact, the margin is only getting wider.


Now with Kinect, they are eating Nintendo's lunch as well.

If they can manage to get some quality core software for Kinect, that should only widen the gap further with Sony and the core market while organically growing the casual market with word of mouth and expected sequels and spin-offs of last years hits.

As I said last month:

Sony should cut their losses and focus on ps4.
Any big exclusives they have in the pipeline, shift gears and ramp it up for ps4.

Make a splash and make it count. Coming late to the party again will do them no good next gen. And if they are better prepared for the party, they may get something more than a consolation prize next go round.
 
Only for PS3 and probably PC minus MMO. Combined console market is larger in the US. Combined all games on all platforms market is larger in the US. Especially in terms of currency spent.

Regards,
SB

No, if we believe the posted pdf you have 24.7 bn $ spend in the USA.
Ger+Fra+Uk+Net+Bel amount to ~14.237 bn € = ~19 bn $ so you only need 5.7 bn $ from the rest of the EU. Add Spain and Italy and you should have matched the 24.7 bn $ of the US and you have all the "little" countrys left ...
 
No, if we believe the posted pdf you have 24.7 bn $ spend in the USA.
Ger+Fra+Uk+Net+Bel amount to ~14.237 bn € = ~19 bn $ so you only need 5.7 bn $ from the rest of the EU. Add Spain and Italy and you should have matched the 24.7 bn $ of the US and you have all the "little" countrys left ...

And why exactly are people trying to compare all of europe to just the US anyway?
 
No, if we believe the posted pdf you have 24.7 bn $ spend in the USA.
Ger+Fra+Uk+Net+Bel amount to ~14.237 bn € = ~19 bn $ so you only need 5.7 bn $ from the rest of the EU. Add Spain and Italy and you should have matched the 24.7 bn $ of the US and you have all the "little" countrys left ...

That all depends on whether they are similar to the amount of spending of the Netherlands or Belgium. We know they are far smaller than Germany, France or the UK. Combined I suspect their spending is much less than half of what France spends. But that just further shows just how many countries need to be pooled together to come even close to matching the buying power of the US market, and that doesn't even count Canada which is also in NA. By targeting just one country, you basically have likely targetted over 1/3 of the entire world's spending on gaming. If piracy weren't so rampant in China and it was more open with regards to gaming, it's entirely possible that they could surpass the US. But as it stands, they are almost irrelevant for gaming revenue for anything except MMOs and perhaps the burgeoning mobile gaming segment.

Regards,
SB
 
Clearly the US is the single largest country, but companies don't deal in countries but markets, which I'm sure is what Vic meant - North America, Europe, and Asia, where Europe often gets a lot of rest-of-world sales I think. Doesn't Australia come under European figures for these companies?

The whole "which country is biggest" talk is the very embodiment of pointless comparison though. All these markets represent substantial potential that can't be ignored. The extra prevalence of the NA market comes from a single language and two nations, instead of the convoluted langauge and beaurocracies of Europe, making it easier to target, and the prevalence of US developers producing what can be considered Hollywood style mass-interest titles that are adopted so readily across the globe, unlike some particular tastes of European or Japanese content that aren't so readily adaopted in other markets. Thus "owning" the Japanese market may win Japanese developers, but that content won't necessarily get you lots of sales in Europe and NA, whereas "owning" NA and securing those developers will certainly see significant content sales in Europe. That's why doing badly in NA isn't good, as you can't afford to lose those developers, but that's happening this gen. Everyone's suitable established that no platform is getting dropped any time soon. Hence the discussion seems pretty moot to me.
 
Clearly the US is the single largest country, but companies don't deal in countries but markets, which I'm sure is what Vic meant - North America, Europe, and Asia, where Europe often gets a lot of rest-of-world sales I think. Doesn't Australia come under European figures for these companies?

The whole "which country is biggest" talk is the very embodiment of pointless comparison though. All these markets represent substantial potential that can't be ignored. The extra prevalence of the NA market comes from a single language and two nations, instead of the convoluted langauge and beaurocracies of Europe, making it easier to target, and the prevalence of US developers producing what can be considered Hollywood style mass-interest titles that are adopted so readily across the globe, unlike some particular tastes of European or Japanese content that aren't so readily adaopted in other markets. Thus "owning" the Japanese market may win Japanese developers, but that content won't necessarily get you lots of sales in Europe and NA, whereas "owning" NA and securing those developers will certainly see significant content sales in Europe. That's why doing badly in NA isn't good, as you can't afford to lose those developers, but that's happening this gen. Everyone's suitable established that no platform is getting dropped any time soon. Hence the discussion seems pretty moot to me.

Speaking of Deja Vu, how may times do we need to have the same discussion in NPD threads that starts with a (relatively) poor PS3 performance in NPD, moves on to "PS3 is doomed!" -> "But Worldwide....." -> increasingly off-topic discussions.
 
And why exactly are people trying to compare all of europe to just the US anyway?

Because they are tired of being an afterthought? So I guess they just decided to bond together like Voltron (though it seems more like the lame vehicle one than the one with the lions). :p
 
Speaking of Deja Vu, how may times do we need to have the same discussion in NPD threads that starts with a (relatively) poor PS3 performance in NPD, moves on to "PS3 is doomed!" -> "But Worldwide....." -> increasingly off-topic discussions.

nobody said "PS3 doomed". what was said was Sony is failing THIS GEN and need to reboot next gen to try to be "successful" (when compared to living up to expectations of a dominant force in the market leading into this gen). Granted with the developments this gen, those expectations will be tempered and targets will be more realistic, compared to last gen, and strategy hopefully will fall in line with those expectations. This gen execution and ideas have been floundering when applied to the market as far as earning NEW mind share. Instead they lost mind share and that can be attributed directly to lagging behind the competition in ideas and execution.

as shifty said it is not a failure in the sense that they will not have developers on board, but the loss of big budget exclusives hurt tremendously. The ones they did manage to hold onto underperformed as far as expanding the user base. It is merely a failure in the sense that they are not the leader in ideas nor execution anymore (LBP excluded) and they have dropped form 1st to 3rd in the largest single market. They are not expanding the market in any way and are simply place holding from a position of 3rd in NA that is incredibly low compared to the expectations that were initially expressed to developers and shareholders.
 
Clearly the US is the single largest country, but companies don't deal in countries but markets, which I'm sure is what Vic meant - North America, Europe, and Asia, where Europe often gets a lot of rest-of-world sales I think. Doesn't Australia come under European figures for these companies?

Then he should be comparing to the americas, not just the US.
 
So which years were the years of the Xbox 360? :p I guess you could say 2010 given unprecedented growth and the successful launch of both a console redesign and Kinect.
2006 :)
Seriously though, there wasn't really any "this is the year of the 360!" mania that I noticed. That's generally relegated to the underdog not performing to expectations. It seems the 360 has met or exceeded expectations each year.
No one says "This is the year of the Wii!!" either, since they have exceeded all expectations.
 
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