NVIDIA GF100 & Friends speculation

[CarstenS]

That's the problem though, at least in the US. Reference GTS 450 is priced the same as reference 5770 but is generally slower. OC'd GTS 450 has one card at 10 USD higher and others even higher than that. At that point you'd be better off just going for a GTX 460 at 170 USD. Taking prices from the Anandtech article since I don't see GTS 450 for sale yet.

Here in Germany you can get them for as little as 120 €, a HD 5750 starts at 99 € and a 5750 at 125 € - all with one Gig, all from reputable shops. So, Nvidia still tries to capitalize from brand recognition and feature set. Performance alone would dictate somwhere between 105 and 110 € - but the card's listet on it's first day, prices may change soon.

1950XTX 380M transistors
HD4350 242M transistors
HD5670 627M transistors

Right, I remembered wrong. But: the point is, that it's worthless to compare older architectures with less features with modern cards - on any side.

 

[Dave Baumann]

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_GTS_450_Cyclone_OC/26.html TPU has the the idle mode just in between the 5750 and 5770.

IIRC (Though I may be wrong) 5750 and 5770 have exactly the same low state in terms of settings and what power saving features are enabled. When you are looking at variances of a few Watts on these types of cards one of the biggest factors is going to be leakage. In other words, if you're looking at a small sample size then a few Watts different really doesn't necessarily tell you much.

 

[neliz]

So basically it has Idle power when computer isn't in use, 2D power when computer is in use at the desktop or 2D program, and 3D power use?/QUOTE]

That's what was shown in [H]'s GTX480 piece, I'm not sure if it's still the same on GF104 and GF106.
"idle" mode is measured with nothing running mostly accompanied by "that's what users will be doing most of the time" but failing to mention the card clocks up as soon as a browser window or something is opened.

when we say "idle" we mean "idle." Even light browsing or pretty much any kind of computer usage kicks the power usage up very quickly. It was not uncommon to see the GTX 470 and GTX 480 jump 50 watts with the opening of a web page.

again, no reference to 2d, 2dload and 3d modes yet.

 

[Alexko]

I was wondering, do we know when GF108 is supposed to be released on desktops?

 

[CarstenS]

Wasn't there an OEM card already posted on Nvidias website (maybe by accident)?

 

[Alexko]

Yes, but it was quickly removed…

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Here in Germany you can get them for as little as 120 €, a HD 5750 starts at 99 € and a 5750 at 125 € - all with one Gig, all from reputable shops. So, Nvidia still tries to capitalize from brand recognition and feature set. Performance alone would dictate somwhere between 105 and 110 € - but the card's listet on it's first day, prices may change soon.

Yeah, I'd imagine Nvidia are monitoring sales and will adjust prices if demand isn't as high as they expected as they've been doing recently. So similar to GTX 460 dropping in price relatively soon after launch (this one caught me by surprise since it was already king of price/perf at that price point).

Regards,
SB

 

[neliz]

What's a king without people to rule?

 

[Sontin]

Is there an explanation why nVidia is able to build such amazing reference coolers? What have they change with GF104-8? GTS450 and GTX460 need mor power than the competition but yet their cooling solution so much better...

Yeah, I'd imagine Nvidia are monitoring sales and will adjust prices if demand isn't as high as they expected as they've been doing recently. So similar to GTX 460 dropping in price relatively soon after launch (this one caught me by surprise since it was already king of price/perf at that price point).

Regards,
SB

There is no price cut for the 1GB version of GTX460.

 

[no-X]

Is there an explanation why nVidia is able to build such amazing reference coolers? What have they change with GF104-8? GTS450 and GTX460 need mor power than the competition but yet their cooling solution so much better...

What's so good on a cooler, which blows all the hot air on your hard-drive and other components?

 

[Florin]

What's so good on a cooler, which blows all the hot air on your hard-drive and other components?

Which cooler would that be?

 

[mczak]

Is there an explanation why nVidia is able to build such amazing reference coolers? What have they change with GF104-8? GTS450 and GTX460 need mor power than the competition but yet their cooling solution so much better...
:

I don't think there's a lot of magic to it. AMD simply didn't care enough to really make a good reference cooler. If you look at that HD5750 thing for instance, it screams cheap (I'm not sure if actually anyone used this cooler). And small screamer fans are probably still cheaper than the larger ones so if you want to save some pennies...

 

[fbuffer]

Is there an explanation why nVidia is able to build such amazing reference coolers? What have they change with GF104-8? GTS450 and GTX460 need mor power than the competition but yet their cooling solution so much better...



There is no price cut for the 1GB version of GTX460.

I think it also goes (almost) without saying that NV cards NEED those "amazing reference coolers" (which add to BOM costs) to come close to ATIs thermal/power performance and lets not forget that NV also has to have upwards of 40% more die space and/or transistors to match ATI's comparative products. How many passively cooled fermi based products have been launched again ?

 

[mczak]

I think it also goes (almost) without saying that NV cards NEED those "amazing reference coolers" (which add to BOM costs) to come close to ATIs thermal/power performance and lets not forget that NV also has to have upwards of 40% more die space and/or transistors to match ATI's comparative products.

If you look at the HD5770 vs. GTS450 cooler, the latter certainly doesn't look more expensive (seems to be much simpler, actually) - though the same isn't quite true for HD5750 vs. GTS450 reference cooler. I think the fan is pretty ineffective on the HD5770 - though it could well have advantages in Crossfire setup (the one instance GTS450 cooler gets into trouble and suddenly isn't amazing anymore but loud - two cards close together). Maybe nvidia thought 99% of users buying this card won't bother with SLI so instead of optimizing for the remaining 1% they optimized for the 99% instead - and even those 1% don't have a problem if they can leave empty space at the fan side of the cards.

 

[neliz]

I think you guys know where they get "amazing reference coolers"!!ONE

 

[CarstenS]

Is GTS 450 utilizing Heatpipes at all or only an aluminium thingie w/fan. In the latter case, the base alu profile (the round thingie...) looks a lot like intels boxed coolers.

 

[neliz]

Is GTS 450 utilizing Heatpipes at all or only an aluminium thingie w/fan. In the latter case, the base alu profile (the round thingie...) looks a lot like intels boxed coolers.

I think the 450 is without heatpipes, the 460 one (pictured above) does have heatpipes.

 

[CarstenS]

It sure has and the similarity is … striking, to say the least.

 

[neliz]

It sure has and the similarity is … striking, to say the least.

The Cyclone has a 9cm fan, the reference I think has 7 or 8cm, no nameplates and no coated/painted heatpipes so there's the cost reduction for you.

 

[KimB]

The Cyclone has a 9cm fan, the reference I think has 7 or 8cm, no nameplates and no coated/painted heatpipes so there's the cost reduction for you.

The design of the grooves is quite different between the fans.