HDR settings uniformity is much needed

[DavidGraham]

Lol the RTXHDR results look horrid from what I've seen, either almost the same as Auto-HDR to at times literally "unplayable" and not in a nonsense internet gamer sort of way. You're, you know, supposed to actually see things in a game generally.

That's not the sentiment shared by people who tried it, whether modders or DigitalFoundry. The feature is supported across DX9 to DX12 and Vulkan titles, and delivers higher quality (better highlights and no raised blacks).

You can also modify it's parameters on the fly in game (through several sliders in the NVIDIA overlay) to achieve satisfactory results to your liking.

They are also planning for it to work on multiple monitors.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1760829625931125130

 

[Reynaldo]

Lol the RTXHDR results look horrid from what I've seen, either almost the same as Auto-HDR to at times literally "unplayable" and not in a nonsense internet gamer sort of way. You're, you know, supposed to actually see things in a game generally.

Well fortunately it just appears exponential, what we're seeing is decades of research finally producing any consumer facing products at all, and then hype weirdos claiming it's "exponential". But that would violate some principles of the universe, such as "the easier something is the more likely you are to accomplish it first". It doesn't get easier, it only ever gets harder on average.

It's much better than AutoHDR.

 

[gamervivek]

Looks pretty decent in GTAV but a bit overzealous in Dying Light. The nits are limited to 1000 however, not using the HDR calibration profile.

 

[Nesh]

Well fortunately it just appears exponential, what we're seeing is decades of research finally producing any consumer facing products at all, and then hype weirdos claiming it's "exponential". But that would violate some principles of the universe, such as "the easier something is the more likely you are to accomplish it first". It doesn't get easier, it only ever gets harder on average.

It doesn't just appear exponential. It is exponential. Years of research it needed to reach this point where AI is improving exponentially.
In a matter of 1 year alone, from messy AI generated videos it can now produce super clean videos that take into account even the fine details of transparency and are almost perfect.

 

[RobertR1]

It's very good, but it's an interpretation of HDR, a best guess and comparable in many ways to auto colourisation of black and white video.
Rather than rely on these fake methods on modern games, developers should ensure HDR in games works as intended. Perhaps this is an education problem, HDR workflows and practices have been successful implemented in broadcast editing and colour grading systems for years. It's a known quantity.

Oh how I wish that was the case and it’s the sole reason I made this thread in the first place. Well done hdr is a massive improvement to image quality at no cost.

As oled tech starts to dominate the high end monitor space, there will hopefully be more community pressure for devs to step up in this area.

Loading up 5 games and each having their own interpretation of hdr adjustments is just a bit embarrassing at this point given how long HDR has been around now.

 

[troyan]

Lol the RTXHDR results look horrid from what I've seen, either almost the same as Auto-HDR to at times literally "unplayable" and not in a nonsense internet gamer sort of way. You're, you know, supposed to actually see things in a game generally.

Hm, i can see everything in "The Ascent". In fact playing this game with RTX HDR is like going from 16 grey colors to HDR...

 

[davis.anthony]

It's AI assisted HDR.

Therefore it's important to remember that it's not going to be perfect in every game.

It might also see improvements just like DLSS has over the years.

 

[DavidGraham]

This HDR enthusiast is hugely impressed by RTX HDR, he even used it in Lies of P, instead of the game's native HDR, because he found RTX HDR to be vastly better.

 

[DavidGraham]

This user found that RTX HDR is better than Horizon Zero Dawn native HDR implementation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/1az4odm

 

[Scott_Arm]

If you're using the new RTX HDR here's a nice post explaining some findings that could lead to better results.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/1b03yfg

 

[DavidGraham]

With RTX HDR the color saturation can be maxed out without colors clipping, and the algorithm will keep up just fine. You also can crank up the brightness without washing out any colors, the blacks remain perfect.

Also RTX Vibrance is for the SDR content that you want to achieve HDR look to it, without actually using HDR.

 

[arandomguy]

It's very good, but it's an interpretation of HDR, a best guess and comparable in many ways to auto colourisation of black and white video.
Rather than rely on these fake methods on modern games, developers should ensure HDR in games works as intended. Perhaps this is an education problem, HDR workflows and practices have been successful implemented in broadcast editing and colour grading systems for years. It's a known quantity.

Oh how I wish that was the case and it’s the sole reason I made this thread in the first place. Well done hdr is a massive improvement to image quality at no cost.

As oled tech starts to dominate the high end monitor space, there will hopefully be more community pressure for devs to step up in this area.

Loading up 5 games and each having their own interpretation of hdr adjustments is just a bit embarrassing at this point given how long HDR has been around now.

I feel there is a financial incentive issue here.

If you look at film for example there's a direct incentive for the content provider to have good HDR, the HDR version is not only a re-release that generates new revenue but also sells for more than the none HDR version. Both the hardware and content vendor stand to make more money directly with HDR from the consumer, which also means they have a natural common incentive to work together or promote HDR to the consumer.

On the PC side there's always been this weird dynamic between the content vendor (developer), hardware vendors and consumers. Consumers pay hardware vendors directly more for a better experience but not content vendors. Yet at the same time consumers expect content vendors to provide said support, and araguably in some situations place a higher responbility on the content vendor than the hardware vendor.

Which kind of reflects the landscape we have now in that there's more incentive for the hardware vendors to push not only HDR, as we see with the above discussion, but also PC graphics in general while the content side is basically a crap shoot.

 

[RobertR1]

@Dictator RTX HDR deep dive incoming? or waiting for app to be out of beta?

 

[Cappuccino]

Also novideo_srgb 4.1 (nvidia only) added support for L* EOTF as a calibration option. I'm not sure if that's an HDR option, or how you'd take advantage of it. I use novideo_srgb to get pretty much perfect srgb on my display, which is natively wide gamut, and proper dithering support.

Release v4.1 · ledoge/novideo_srgb

Added support for L* EOTF Fixed bug where unity HDR output would be interpreted as active color space conversion

github.com

You can select a target and then select a gamma calibration. Don't know if it truly handles hdr though. Just not sure what L* EOTF is. I know L is luminance, but not sure what the * means.
View attachment 10461

View attachment 10462

Would you want to use an sRGB clamp while using Windows HDR (or really just HDR in general)? I’ve got my PC hooked up to an OLED TV and I just leave Windows HDR on all the time as it’s supposed to clamp non-HDR/sRGB content automatically as long as HDR is enabled, and I usually use some form of AutoHDR/RTX HDR/whatever anyways.

Is an sRGB clamp for if you want to use a Wide Gamut display but with Windows HDR disabled?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Would you want to use an sRGB clamp while using Windows HDR (or really just HDR in general)? I’ve got my PC hooked up to an OLED TV and I just leave Windows HDR on all the time as it’s supposed to clamp non-HDR/sRGB content automatically as long as HDR is enabled, and I usually use some form of AutoHDR/RTX HDR/whatever anyways.

Is an sRGB clamp for if you want to use a Wide Gamut display but with Windows HDR disabled?

You only want to use the srgb clamp if you're viewing SDR content. Windows assumes sRGB for SDR content. If you have a wide gamut display that doesn't have a good sRGB mode, colours will look over saturated when viewing SDR content. You definitely do not want to use something like novideo_srgb with HDR. It's specifically designed to make SDR content look correct, but it would make HDR content look wrong.

 

[Cappuccino]

You only want to use the srgb clamp if you're viewing SDR content. Windows assumes sRGB for SDR content. If you have a wide gamut display that doesn't have a good sRGB mode, colours will look over saturated when viewing SDR content. You definitely do not want to use something like novideo_srgb with HDR. It's specifically designed to make SDR content look correct, but it would make HDR content look wrong.

Okay that makes sense, thanks. Would you use it if you are playing an SDR game with Windows HDR enabled? I read that some time in 2022 Windows 11 implemented color management that will apply a clamp if you have HDR enabled in Windows but open an SDR game (I don’t think it was back ported to 10), is this wrong or is windows just still bad at it?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Okay that makes sense, thanks. Would you use it if you are playing an SDR game with Windows HDR enabled? I read that some time in 2022 Windows 11 implemented color management that will apply a clamp if you have HDR enabled in Windows but open an SDR game (I don’t think it was back ported to 10), is this wrong or is windows just still bad at it?

I’m unclear on whether that feature in windows is working yet or if it’s just in development builds. I think you need a colour management profile that has special tags to make it compatible. I’ve been meaning to check if I’m able to get it working. When working both sdr and hdr should display correctly.

 

[RobertR1]

 

[pcchen]

One downside of NVIDIA RTX HDR is that it does not work when under a multi-monitor settings. I recently got a new OLED monitor and use it alongside with my old IPS monitor (both support HDR), and suddenly found that RTX HDR does not work anymore. I'm not sure why it does not work when using multiple monitors, as the video HDR thing still works fine. I hope NVIDIA fix this problem soon. Anyway I have to go back to Windows Auto HDR for now.

 

[RobertR1]

One downside of NVIDIA RTX HDR is that it does not work when under a multi-monitor settings. I recently got a new OLED monitor and use it alongside with my old IPS monitor (both support HDR), and suddenly found that RTX HDR does not work anymore. I'm not sure why it does not work when using multiple monitors, as the video HDR thing still works fine. I hope NVIDIA fix this problem soon. Anyway I have to go back to Windows Auto HDR for now.

nvidia employee on /r/nvidia confirmed it's being worked on.