NVIDIA GF100 & Friends speculation

[trinibwoy]

You only need it for something that runs hot, so to say "it must run cool and quiet because they put a massive heatsink on it" may not be the case at all.

Right, but is it going to run hot even after putting that gargantuan heatsink on? That would be a big problem.

Previous data points to a 1.9A fan which is quite beefy. If that current rating is true, it puts the blower in the 60-70 db range at full power which is anything but not very very loud.

You would think someone would have turned it on by now and spilled the beans.

 

[aaronspink]

Right, but is it going to run hot even after putting that gargantuan heatsink on? That would be a big problem.

Well 80-90 C at load is pretty normal for graphics cards. Considering the likely cost, it is doubtful they would do it if it didn't need it, so I would still expect 80-90 C load temps just like any other card.

You would think someone would have turned it on by now and spilled the beans.

Quite.

 

[trinibwoy]

Well 80-90 C at load is pretty normal for graphics cards. Considering the likely cost, it is doubtful they would do it if it didn't need it, so I would still expect 80-90 C load temps just like any other card.

What about Dave's theory of needing to keep it cool to keep power consumption in check? Sounds like a risky proposition to me but it's possible.

 

[KimB]

Uh, I'd be willing to be there are pictures of the card with the cover still in place on this page and the previous one, showing that the top of the heatsink is completely exposed even with the shroud in place.

Uh, no. There are some small vents into the case, but the heatsink is most definitely not completely exposed.

 

[DeF]

Cost likely. You have to die cast the top in addition to all the other parts and then take a separate manufacturing step to bond the die cast part to the finished crimped fin structure likely using a thermal epoxy. And it likely doesn't provide that much additional dissipation because of the heat path through the thin Alu fins L junction is probably pretty poor. The L junctions are primarily a structure/wind tunnel element of the design and aren't engineered for thermal efficiency.

The whole thing is likely pretty pricey esp with the number of different length fins which also adds to manufacturing cost (tooling, tracking, assembly, etc). It certainly gives the appearance that the card is producing a pretty significant amount of heat.

I don't think they actually die cast any of these things. Making tools for pressure casting (i don't think gravity casting will give sufficient quality) those kind of shapes is expensive compared to extruding alu profiles. Furthermore, final cost of single heat sink might be higher as well if you cast it. Extruding shape like that will require only small amount of additional work using CNC centre (and cutting to slices beforehand ofc). Tool for making pressure casted parts will cost you about 80000€ (it depends on size and complexity ofc) while tool for extruding will cost you about ~1000€.

 

[aaronspink]

I don't think they actually die cast any of these things. Making tools for pressure casting (i don't think gravity casting will give sufficient quality) those kind of shapes is expensive compared to extruding alu profiles. Furthermore, final cost of single heat sink might be higher as well if you cast it. Extruding shape like that will require only small amount of additional work using CNC centre (and cutting to slices beforehand ofc). Tool for making pressure casted parts will cost you about 80000€ (it depends on size and complexity ofc) while tool for extruding will cost you about ~1000€.

The top portion of the 480 heatsink certainly doesn't look like it is extruded unless they extruded and then CNC'd which is way out of whack cost wise. It is either die case or press cast. Certainly we're seen both ATI and Nvidia use Press/Die cast parts in the past (think back to the Nvidia heat spreaders with the conical pins which would require way too much material to do in an extrude/CNC manner.)

Considering these are roughly 2D designs with minimal 3D structures, something like gravity casting is perfectly reasonable. The reality is that casting in china is a lot cheaper than ANY CNC machine work will ever be. Don't know if you've ever seen them, but there was a great photo set from the factory in china that was ripping off the Zalman flower heatsinks a couple years back. All manual labor with things like dulled butcher knifes as spacing tools.

 

[doob]

Do you think in the near future we will start seeing nvidia/amd/otherIHV pushing for water cooled stock designs?

We really arent far off from reality becomming something like this with 1,2+ fans.

I mean these fan based heatsinks are getting more complex, why just not start pushing water cooling as a standard. At least we'd get rid of the noise and not have to worry about dust.

 

[aaronspink]

Do you think in the near future we will start seeing nvidia/amd/otherIHV pushing for water cooled stock designs?

We really arent far off from reality becomming something like this with 1,2+ fans.

I mean these fan based heatsinks are getting more complex, why just not start pushing water cooling as a standard. At least we'd get rid of the noise and not have to worry about dust.

Water + Electricity = ??????

I think someone hasn't ever worked customer service or tech support.

 

[doob]

Do you think in the near future we will start seeing nvidia/amd/otherIHV pushing for water cooled stock designs?

We really arent far off from reality becomming something like this with 1,2+ fans.

I mean these fan based heatsinks are getting more [strike]complex[/strike] elaborate, why just not start pushing water cooling as a standard. At least we'd get rid of the noise and not have to worry about dust.

Ps. ups wanted to edit the post above, i just woke up sorry, delete it.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Right, but is it going to run hot even after putting that gargantuan heatsink on? That would be a big problem.

That heatsink's there to dissipate a lot of heat - it's going to get pretty hot I think.

You would think someone would have turned it on by now and spilled the beans.

They will. The only thing I've read is that it's "loud, but not annoying" - but that's at idle, which doesn't bode well for the noise levels, especially given that "annoying" is pretty subjective, and dependent on the rest of your system.

If you're sensitive to noise and have gone out of your way to have a quiet system, then you may have a lower tolerance for what is "annoying", or indeed "loud".

 

[KimB]

Do you think in the near future we will start seeing nvidia/amd/otherIHV pushing for water cooled stock designs?

No. Too much involved.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Uh, no. There are some small vents into the case, but the heatsink is most definitely not completely exposed.

I think you are wrong. Look again at the pictures. There is a big shiny black radiator that is part of the heatsink above the fins that is exposed through the shroud.

 

[KimB]

I think you are wrong. Look again at the pictures. There is a big silver radiator that is part of the heatsink above the fins that is exposed through the shroud.

What are you talking about? There's a bit of corrugation on the metal that I see, but definitely no exposed fins.

 

[CarstenS]

How would you optically notice a difference between an extruded metal surface against whatever else it'd look like?

 

[tannat]

Or alternately, the chip runs really hot and a massive heatsink and very powerful fan is required to cool the thing. I'm surprised that the heatsink need to be uncovered so a lot of heat/air is vented into the case instead of being vented outside. Obviously that was required to get enough cooling out of an already massive heatsink, and that explains the special Fermi cases designed with Nvidia to cool the card.

Agreed, I was just trying to look at it from a positive angle. It really looks like a very efficient cooler.

 

[KimB]

How would you optically notice a difference between an extruded metal surface against whatever else it'd look like?

I'd be rather surprised if you could get the breaks in the deflection of the surface via extrusion. Pressing seems much more reasonable.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

What are you talking about? There's a bit of corrugation on the metal that I see, but definitely no exposed fins.

It's a radiator, attached across the top of the fins. It is not part of the shroud, it is part of the heatsink. It looks shiny black and metallic. You can even see it looks welded to the top of the fins at each side of the heatsink. Not all parts of a heatsink are fins. This is obviously designed to radiate heat off the fins and into the case as it is exposed through the shroud.

 

[KimB]

It's a radiator, attached across the top of the fins. It is not part of the shroud, it is part of the heatsink. It looks shiny black and metallic. Not all parts of a heatsink are fins.

The surface area isn't increased much by the slight corrugation. Yes, it will radiate somewhat, but it's not a tremendous departure from previous designs.

 

[CarstenS]

You can even see it's welded to the top of the fins. Not all parts of a heatsink are fins.

If it were, would you be able to move the fins? I think not, right?

 

[stevem]

Previous data points to a 1.9A fan which is quite beefy. If that current rating is true, it puts the blower in the 60-70 db range at full power which is anything but not very very loud.

Wasn't that for GTX470? Delta 70x20mm 1.8A.

On second take, it's more likely to be a Delta 75x25mm for the GTX480. If @ 1.9A will be ~10k rpm @ 60db easy, but with PWM & thermal control should only use 1/2 of that potential at full tilt.

How would you optically notice a difference between an extruded metal surface against whatever else it'd look like?

See if the channels are smooth, pitted/bumps, or have machined marks/swirls.

I'd be rather surprised if you could get the breaks in the deflection of the surface via extrusion. Pressing seems much more reasonable.

You can extrude in one direction & mill in the other, or various combinations. Cast & pressed are also possible.