My Wii Mini Review : First Impressions

[Nick Laslett]

I posted in this thread about the motion sensing add-on coming to the PS2 this Christmas.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=35813

In2Games have received $14 million investment to promote the Fusion technology.

http://www.in2games.uk.com/corporate/news-item.php?newsid=15

Here is gamepack shots.

http://www.enregistrersous.com/images/69330423820070817164755.jpg

Perhaps this will help satisfy the markets curiousity over motion sensing based games. I'm interested in motion sensing gameplay, but I'd rather just buy an add-on for my PS2, than a whole new console.

I wonder how it will compare with the Wii. Judging by DemoCoder's comments the Tennis game could hardly be worse than Wii Play.

 

[DemoCoder]

I think a haptic-style Falcon Novint style controller is a true next-gen control mechanism, because your arms just aren't floating in air. You get XYZ positional control, while at the same time, true force feedback, rather than rumble.

Maybe the next-next-gen era will see a dramatic cost reduction in haptic interfaces.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I think a haptic-style Falcon Novint style controller is a true next-gen control mechanism, because your arms just aren't floating in air. You get XYZ positional control, while at the same time, true force feedback, rather than rumble.

Maybe the next-next-gen era will see a dramatic cost reduction in haptic interfaces.

I don't really see how it can translate into something handheld which can be a huge problem for most peoples living room. I don't want to have to have a desk to play. Or am I missing some recent discovery?

 

[Scott_Arm]

They're adding keyboard support to the Wii. I think it's already in for Wii messages with the latest firmware. I haven't tried it out. Anyway, I haven't tried anything with Wii points, but I find typing with the pointer to be pretty quick.

I guess I'm just not as critical as everyone else here. So far everyone I've had over to try it out has enjoyed it, including some hardcore PS2 and PC gamers. I don't think the Wii is without its flaws, but I don't think it's a bad system in any way. Gamepads are good for some things, mouse and keyboard is good for others, and I think the Wiimote has its own place as well. Maybe the Wii is not the right console for you, but maybe the Wii2 will be.

 

[Zaphod]

I wonder how it will compare with the Wii. Judging by DemoCoder's comments the Tennis game could hardly be worse than Wii Play.

This?



So far these guys have no momentum, no mindshare, an underwhelming track record, and they're late to market with the PS2 to boot. I have no idea about the actual merit of their controller thingy, but somehow I doubt very much they'll be able to incite consumers with their current efforts.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

The Wii may very well become the platform leader in how willing publishers are to part with their money, though. I can easily see how a developer pitching a concept for a high end title at cost X being told to come back with a design for a Wii game at 1/4X before there's any talk about their original proposal. Assuming the Wii becomes the dominant market leader as far as install base goes, it doesn't really matter if the attach rate isn't as good as for the x360. The lower development cost will make the Wii an attractive proposition for those holding the money, and this could impact funding for high budget titles on the other platforms (unless you're a 1st party, an established name, or building on a proven franchise).

You're assuming that the attach rate for a Wii game ported to the PS3 and 360 will still be acceptable.

I promise you, it won't be.

Again, the Wii consumers have made a choice to sacrifice graphics in favor of a cheaper console and a control scheme.

PS3 and 360 users made no such choice and will make no such sacrifice in terms of graphics. Wii games that are ported to PS3 and 360 won't compare to the titles already (currently) in existence for those consoles, and the users won't buy them.

You're talking about a situation where developers would have to give up development on the PS3 and 360 entirely in order to use the Wii as a lead development platform.

And for every developer that chooses to do that (I haven't heard of a single one yet, let alone a mass exodus that is being predicted), there will be more than one willing to make the blockbuster beautiful titles that require the power provided by the 360 and PS3.

 

[RobertR1]

The crowd that buys DS at an alarming rate will be the same ones migrating to the Wii. Not only that crowd but you're seeing the hardcore games also buying Wii's as a fun toy. I doubt the Nintendo has anything to fear about Wii's longevity. Also, once a product becomes popular in the mass consumers eyes, it's almost a "must have" fad regardless of it's usage or competition. ipod being a good example.

I played the Wii a few times now. Nothing amazing about that I could tell. It wasn't like I played and went "OMG! GOTTA HAVE IT!!!"

I'll likely get one after this holiday season. With all the 360 and a couple of PS3 games during the holidays, the Wii might never get any playtime so after the Holidays when it's a quieter time, I'll snatch one up and play through Mario.

I don't expect the Wii to have the same software attach rate as the 360 mainly because the casual games/mass consumer crowd is quite different than the hardcore gamers who have 360's. The price and marketing being the key factors creating the seperation between the 2 groups.

 

[_xxx_]

Lag isn't at all bad when you get used to it a bit, I have no probs with it. As for more prcise controls, try RE4.

And why t.f. would anyone buy a game called "cooking mama"? The name already says all about the suckage.

I love my Wii, btw.

I tried the PS3 this weekend and have the exact opposite impression - same old, same old - ultra boring. Motorstorm looks like a 3-4 years old run-of-the-mill PC game, Resistance was meh. Give me my PC over that anytime. But Wii is in a different niche, I don't understand why people compare it to PS3/XB360 at all.

 

[Arwin]

Your PS3 impressions are about as 'impressive' and silly as the OPs, _xxx_. But just for my reference, did you try Motorstorm's motion controls at least? And did you drive on the Coyote Rage track? (the one which has such incredible lighting). In first person perspective? Because believe it or not, all these three things matter a great deal.

Also, Motorstorm has 12 player online, and Resistance 40 (with some great physics too). Just pointing that out.

And the PS3 has a bunch of other neat tricks it can do too, which in my book don't make it 'same old same old' at all. But I'm sure you didn't try Super Rub-a-Duck, Fl0w, Super Stardust HD, or any of that stuff.

Hey but all these things are a matter of taste. I did in fact meet a grandma this weekend who owned a DS with Brain Training 2, and liked playing on the Wii (which she called WiFi). But having said that, I've got heaps of experience now with the fact that all the motion control games on the PS3 are just as accessible as any Wii games are.

All in all, the Wii and PS3 offer different things for different tastes. The PS3 is definitely the more well-rounded of the two, but obviously that comes at a price. And both are also still obviously within their first year.

 

[_xxx_]

Your PS3 impressions are about as 'impressive' and silly as the OPs, _xxx_.

Sure, that was the point, just showing the other side here. No idea about that track, I didn't memorize the names. Yes, I tried the motion controls but that is not what turned me off - it's the game itself, including the GFX. Not that it was bad or anything, just boring. And I for example don't play any multiplayer games, so that's a non-issue for me. As you say, all a matter of taste - mine tends towards Wii. For the games like what PS3 offers, PC is waaaay better IMO. Especially shooters.

 

[DemoCoder]

I just a Gamespot preview of Rockstar Ping Pong. Back when the Wii was first announced, and everyone was raving over the possibilities of the control scheme, I was one of the few naysayers/skeptical voices on this forum who pointed out the potential problems, as well as the very real possibility that all of the hopes and dreams people were assigning to the Wiimote would be dashed in favor of gesture recognition.

But I did mention that if any game *cried out* for the Wiimote style control, it was table tennis/ping pong.


So, I don't think anyone can accuse Rockstar of being a shitty or thoughless developer, yet in the preview of Rockstar Pingpong for the Wii, once again, it's back to *lag* and *gestures* Yep, you have to use the Nunchuk to aim the ball, the Wiimote movement is used just as a button press.

Not only that, but the preview mentions that you have to 'preload' your swing (that is, swing way before you expect) because of lag, whereas if they had just mapped the swing to the A-button, the game would be alot better!


So, why would a fine developer like Rockstar, obviously motivated to port a perfect game for the Wiimote, who even put in "advanced" vs "newbie" control modes, still failed to provide real-time swing control?

I think this is highly indicative of a fundamental design flaw in the Wiimote system if a top tier developer can't make it perform like everyone had hoped it would.


IMHO, Nintendo should have never 'bet the farm' on this silly controller if they hadn't *perfected it*. The fact that neither first-party inhouse Nintendo titles, nor AAA third party developers can deliver the kind of control that was predicted on these very forums, I think is conclusive evidence that the Wiimote design is not ready for prime time.

Hopefully, within the life of the console, they can ship a second generation Wiimote and sensor bar that fixes all of these issues.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

IMHO, Nintendo should have never 'bet the farm' on this silly controller if they hadn't *perfected it*. The fact that neither first-party inhouse Nintendo titles, nor AAA third party developers can deliver the kind of control that was predicted on these very forums, I think is conclusive evidence that the Wiimote design is not ready for prime time.

From a business perspective, you're very wrong! If Nintendo had gone with conventional, they'd be nowhere now. Even if the control scheme isn't what we hoped for, it is what the public is willing to buy, and at the moment willing to play with. I've found Wii Sports quite annoying in not being a 'proper' motion detection, but when you shed expectations and just play it for what it is against friends, its entertaining enough. It's not my cup of tea, but looking at Wii sales you'd have to be be crazy to say Nintendo shouldn't have bothered!

 

[DemoCoder]

#1 I find WiiSports less fun than Eye Toy titles, less fun than DDR, Guitar Hero, or other games involving odd control schemes.

#2 As a person interested in technology, the Wii sets a bad precedent. That you can ship shitty hardware, with crappy control, shovelware ports, rehashed NES games, and market it using slick, but deceptive practices (oh, what, I can't play the Wii at kiosks, only watch slick focus-group-approved videos of people laughing and smiling?)

#3 What happens if Wii drives devs to pump resources into casuals, with shoddy graphics, dumbed down controls, and what happens to MS/Sony as far as what they'll do next-next-gen? Do you really want to see MS/Sony release overclocked versions of the XBOX360/PS3 with high margins and gimmicky control schemes?

Yes, what Nintendo did was good for their bottom line, but I'm not sure it's good for us gamers. Sure, it brings a bunch of people who never cared about games before into the audience, but you know what, I want games designed for me, not games designed for the lowest common denominator.

p.s. I still think the Wii is a fad and that many people buying it don't know what they are getting, and that ultimately, you will see them collecting dust with an unimpressive attach rate in the long term. Certainly, nothing like the PS2 success.

 

[Arwin]

I'm not a big fan of the Wii myself, but now you are exaggerating. Controls are often pretty good in Wii games and they are really much easier to pick up for non-gamers. I see this on the PS3 a lot myself, and I was just recently at my grandma's birthday party, having her sister (who is in her 70s) tell me that she really likes their neighbour's Wii (or WiFi) as she calls it. I've tried it myself, and there's nothing wrong with a game like Wii-tennis. For me personally sure, as it's far too simplistic, but the response of the controls is more than fine.

 

[DemoCoder]

Yeah, well, I'd agree that the controls in a game like Wii Tennis are easy to pick up, because Wii Tennis is not a tennis game. It's a WarioWare 'press the button at the right time' game in disguise.

Whereas, in a real tennis game, you have to decide where to place your player, whether you want to hit a forehand shot or a backhand shot, whether you want to put topspin or slice on the ball, or hit a lob, etc.

But Wii Tennis could have just as easily mapped the swing-motion to pressing the 'A' button and the result would have been mostly the same.


When you dumb down games, it's easy for people to pick up the control system. It's like saying driving an automatic is easier than a manual transmission.


This may be fine for party games, where half drunk non-gamers sloppily play gimmick titles, but for replay value as a single player game with depth?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

p.s. I still think the Wii is a fad and that many people buying it don't know what they are getting, and that ultimately, you will see them collecting dust with an unimpressive attach rate in the long term. Certainly, nothing like the PS2 success.

Maybe you shouldnt bother and just say Wii is crap, I dont like it because you obviously ignoring the positive things people have said in this topic. You just go ahh all games play crap, all gfx look crap, there wont be any decent games, it will collect dust blabla. You just ignore the games that do play good, or the games that will be out by the end of the year and do look good.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Yeah, well, I'd agree that the controls in a game like Wii Tennis are easy to pick up, because Wii Tennis is not a tennis game. It's a WarioWare 'press the button at the right time' game in disguise.

Whereas, in a real tennis game, you have to decide where to place your player, whether you want to hit a forehand shot or a backhand shot, whether you want to put topspin or slice on the ball, or hit a lob, etc.

But Wii Tennis could have just as easily mapped the swing-motion to pressing the 'A' button and the result would have been mostly the same.

This just proves you havnt even botherd actually playing Wii tennis because if you did you'd know just how wrong your comments are.

Timing and the way you move actually do influance the movement of the ball alot and you can do back and forehands. The only thing with wii tennis is that it wont map your movement to what you see on screen, but the actually movement data is used to see where the ball should be going, it just doesnt translate into the animation.

 

[Arwin]

Yeah, well, I'd agree that the controls in a game like Wii Tennis are easy to pick up, because Wii Tennis is not a tennis game. It's a WarioWare 'press the button at the right time' game in disguise.

Whereas, in a real tennis game, you have to decide where to place your player, whether you want to hit a forehand shot or a backhand shot, whether you want to put topspin or slice on the ball, or hit a lob, etc.

You don't place the player, but all these other things are in the game. You're making a fool out of yourself. It is dumbed down a little in terms of that the timing of the hit determines the force of the hit, and not how hard you swing the wiimote. But you can still do forehand, backhand, spin, slice and lob.

This may be fine for party games, where half drunk non-gamers sloppily play gimmick titles, but for replay value as a single player game with depth?

The point though, at least for me, that apart from that you are rather wrong, is that the potential is there. A next version of the game could use the nunchuck for moving around yourself in an 'advanced mode'.

Of course, that's the reason I don't buy into Wii for now. First it needs that enhanced mode in there, and second, it needs online play as well (not to mention graphics, but ok). However, in general the controls work, and they work well. But a lot of hardcore gamers are too blinded by habit to notice, which is just ... .

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But Wii Tennis could have just as easily mapped the swing-motion to pressing the 'A' button and the result would have been mostly the same.

Except it wouldn't, because much of the enjoyment comes from the movement. If you were to map Wii Tennis to pressing a button, the people that enjoy it now wouldn't be interested. Like Dance Dance Revolution mapped to the 4 face buttons. Who'd play that game then? The game mechanics are only part of the equation. Interface is another major player, and that's something Wii has which people like.

 

[DemoCoder]

Well, I played Wii Tennis for over 2 hours, after searching the web for control tips, and could not detect any topspin or slice. Backhand or forehand spin yes, topspin or backspin, no. Perhaps its there, but minor in effect, certainly not like hitting a slice in Topspin or Virtua Tennis. (to say that you have control over backhand/forehand when you don't have control over foot placement is absurd. How can you hit a backhand shot if you are far away from the ball and it's on your forehand side? What, do you like teleport to the otherside of the ball and magically hit it with a backhand?)

And the fact that you have no control over your player removes a big part of tennis, which is trying to predict what your opponent is going to do, and to get there ahead of time.

As far as I can tell, timing is far more important in Wii Tennis for ball placement, and the fact that a) the lag gimps you and b) you have no visual individual of how you opponent has hit the ball makes it one shitty tennis game. I stand by my conclusion that Wii Tennis is a primarily a 'timing' game, but if you think the ability to put sidespin on it (whoop-de-do) makes it a full control tennis game, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

The Wii seems to generate alot of cognitive dissonance. So much hype to buy into, so much denial. I ask you, go back 1 year and compare the articles written about what the Wii control will do, with the reality of what it does 1 year later. Hell, I still remember that gushing Time Magazine 'review' of Red Steel about how much it was like real sword fighting, when in reality, it's a truly lame gesture recognition system.

I've already spent $300+ on this system, so I feel I am justified in criticizing it for not delivering on its promises. And the irony is, *I am not criticizing its lack of HD or next-gen graphics*. I knew it wasn't going to deliver those. I am criticizing it for not delivering the Wiimote experience I was sold.