PS3 on monitors

[Pete]

I'm 100% certain that the Samsung 225BW (and up) is 8 bit per color though ...

I'm not familiar with current LCDs but BeHardware (aka Hardware.fr, which offers a lot of in-depth reviews) seems to think it's 6-bit.

I haven't read it, but they also have an article on the 226BW (and its two variants), which might contain further info.

I was under the impression that TN panels were inherently 6-bit and poor at off-angle viewing, but this Acer is listed as 16.7M colors. It's possible color range and viewing angle are separate issues WRT panel type. OTOH, it's also possible manufacturers are rendering the distinction b/w 6- and 8-bit panels moot with creative labelling thanks to improved dithering (they called the old TN panels 16.2M, so if they've since reduced perceptible dithering they may consider it acceptable to boost the colors figure).

Wikipedia says "most [TN displays] are unable to display the full 16.7 million colors (24-bit truecolor)," so it's possible some of these newer TN panels are breaking from their value roots and offering higher color depth.

An article at TFT Central (referenced by the Wikipedia entry) says that "TN Film screens are traditionally more economical. In fact, they only display 64 red, 64 blue and 64 green shades," BUT a link in that very section points to another (presumably newer) article on their site, 6-Bit vs. 8-Bit, that says:

The reason that TN Film panels have traditionally been 6 bit panels is that the manufacturers used low performance A/D Convertors. This was a means to keep costs of these panels down, and also to help improve responsiveness. That's why they have been 6-bit (and fast) for many years. TN panels could just as well be 8-bit panels if the manufacturers decided to make them so.

So, as TN panels move into more upscale sizes, like 22", it's possible manufacturers have used that more premium size and price to squeeze in better color.

 

[Skrying]

22" is not premium, certainly not in its current form. Like most of the others sizes there seems to be a few very popular panels used under a wide variety of brands. The same panel used in a $230 22" is in the $350 one. There are very few "untouched" sizes by TN right now, even very large sizes are starting to see it, I believe Viewsonic's new 28" screen is TN, I would think certainly considering it is priced near very competitively priced 24" S-IPS screens such as the Dell and Samsung 24" models.

 

[poopypoo]

Adaptors don't make sense if you're looking to buy a new monitor. The price of a monitor with HDCP is less than a monitor that's VGA only and an adaptor to get it to work! At the moment it seems more a faf of tracking down monitors that support HDCP. It's not a checklist feature with online retailers as far as I can tell.

if you go here and click "Advanced Search", there's an HDMI dropdown option which takes you to here! ;D

EDIT: ahh, crap. ignore my comment, as I always had thought Shifty was US-based. although, using newegg is a pretty nice way to find model numbers to search for elsewhere! but it's not always the most reliable for findings Euro models.

 

[Arwin]

Thanks Pete!

That lead me among others to this discussion of 6 vs 8 bit. The 16.7m color specced on TN panels probably points to 9bit dithering, which solves the missing 0.5 that traditional 6bit TN panels suffer from. But it also indicates that at least in theory 8bit is possible on TN panels.

More importantly, it has found a list of Samsung specs that itself makes a difference between regular 16.7m color and 16.7m color (true color 8 bit), which seems to indicate that the first uses 9 bit dithering, and the second real 8 bit technogoly.

Finally, we are learning that some of the other techniques in panels are starting to use 6bit also, to achieve better response times, and that the reason for 6bit with dithering in the first place is because this can achieve much better response times, so these panels can still very much be desirable for gaming.

(And I also learnt that these panels indeed use much less power in the pages that you linked to)

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/6bit_8bit.htm

 

[Strange]

This is interesting. I see many saying that 22 inch screens are good.

However, for PS3s, what you will want is actuallly getting 1080P+HDCP for an okay price.

The best solution that I have (and I'm actully running this config + suggested it to another friend) is

Dell 2407 FPW + HDMI <-> Dvi Cable.

2407 FPW supports 1080P and HDMI, no doubt about that, and it can handle the DVI signal very well, even able to scale up 720P by aspect up to 1080 quite nicely.
The monitor sells for about 650 USD, and seems like a great deal to me
Also great for using as a computer monitor

I have been using the 2405 FPW for 2 years so far (I actually use a HDCP stripper to make it have the same usability as a 2407 FPW), and 24 inch monitors are sweet

 

[Mmmkay]

So I suddenly find myself in the market for a PS3 compatible multipurpose gaming monitor. I'm currently deliberating between the 21" Samsung SM215TW and the 22" SM226BW. They both are floating around the same £230 mark, but there are some notable differences.

The 215TW is an S-PVA panel so it should be an 8-bit panel, but a 2006 model. The 226BW is obviously bigger, a 2007 model, and sports a better response time - but is TN based. It's also currently embroiled in a furore over 3 different panel types used after Samsung subcontracted development to AU Optronics and CMO. Get the right panel (S) and it's generally regarded as unparalleled in the 22" market, but get an A or C panel and it's not quite so hot. Unfortunately Samsung have taken steps both in packaging and their service menu to prevent users from definitively knowing which panel type they have.

There are a other few monitors in the same price range that I'm considering but don't know too much about. The Dell E228WFP because as I understand it, they have options for altering aspect ratio, and the BenQ FP222WH because it has HDMI+DVI+VGA inputs allowing me to connect a PS3/360/PC without changing cables.

I'm pretty comfortable paying close to the £230 mark but would only go towards £250 for a very good cause.

 

[infinity4]

i was thinking of PS3 + HDCP monitor until i found out the fact that elite doesn't require HDCP monitors which sounds very tempting. can't sony make firmware update only to activate HDCP when we watch BR films?

 

[Angelcurio]

I really don't have any experience with the BenQ, and they aren't readily available in shops over here in Europe, so I can't really comment on them. It seems that the BenQ has a HDMI port, which could be an advantage. But then it seems that it only takes 1080i from the PS3? That I'd consider a big disadvantage. Also, some people are complaining about over-saturisation on the contrast levels and some bleeding in the comments, but I guess there will always be people complaining.

I have no complaints about the Samsung though, and that's about all the advice I can give you on the subject!

In the end of the day, i went with the 226BW model and i can say that its awesome.

Coming from a SDTV owner, when you start playing in HD the difference is stunning. There is a lot of detail that goes unnoticed in SD that is so vibrant and clear in HD.

The only complaint i have with the monitor is that each time it switches to 1080p (when you are playing a 720P game and return to the XMB) the monitor displays a message that says "Not optimum mode", and you have to press any button on the display to make that warning disappear, after a while it gets tiring having to press a button on the panel for that warning to disappear.

 

[crazygambit]

So I suddenly find myself in the market for a PS3 compatible multipurpose gaming monitor. I'm currently deliberating between the 21" Samsung SM215TW and the 22" SM226BW. They both are floating around the same £230 mark, but there are some notable differences.

The 215TW is an S-PVA panel so it should be an 8-bit panel, but a 2006 model. The 226BW is obviously bigger, a 2007 model, and sports a better response time - but is TN based. It's also currently embroiled in a furore over 3 different panel types used after Samsung subcontracted development to AU Optronics and CMO. Get the right panel (S) and it's generally regarded as unparalleled in the 22" market, but get an A or C panel and it's not quite so hot. Unfortunately Samsung have taken steps both in packaging and their service menu to prevent users from definitively knowing which panel type they have.

There are a other few monitors in the same price range that I'm considering but don't know too much about. The Dell E228WFP because as I understand it, they have options for altering aspect ratio, and the BenQ FP222WH because it has HDMI+DVI+VGA inputs allowing me to connect a PS3/360/PC without changing cables.

I'm pretty comfortable paying close to the £230 mark but would only go towards £250 for a very good cause.

I'm in the same situation as you. I think I'm gonna go for the 226BW as soon as I find an S panel. For what I read you should avoid the C one at all costs (the A is slighly crappier, but still good). Anyway I found this
link explaining how to identify them. Problem is you need to actually have the monitor out of the box for it to be reliable so no shopping online if you want an S panel. I hope it helps people in my same situation.

 

[Gradthrawn]

I'm in the same situation as you. I think I'm gonna go for the 226BW as soon as I find an S panel. For what I read you should avoid the C one at all costs (the A is slighly crappier, but still good). Anyway I found this
link explaining how to identify them. Problem is you need to actually have the monitor out of the box for it to be reliable so no shopping online if you want an S panel. I hope it helps people in my same situation.

Much appreciated friend. I'll be ordering six 226BWs and eight 906BWs for the office next month. Frankly, news like this is disturbing. But, its good to be informed. Perhaps I'll order from Best Buy online instead of Buy.com just to have a store to take any panels back to if necessary.

 

[infinity4]

will 226BW show ps3 in its native resolution or stretch to ugly 16:10?

 

[Arwin]

will 226BW show ps3 in its native resolution or stretch to ugly 16:10?

What native resolution were you thinking about? My 225 stretches to 16:10 by default, because the screen's resolution is 1680x1050. Not stretching the resolution would cause some serious problems here. What you are thinking about probably is that it would be nice if you could choose an option that stretches the resolution to 16:9 instead, but I'm not sure that would really look that much better. The difference between 16:10 and 16:9 is small enough for me, anyway.

I don't know if the 226 has additional options though? Also I haven't installed any tools or anything that might influence the way things look. My laptop by default seems to put any resolution lower than the display's native resolution in pixel mapped display forms, so it seems there are different possibilities, depending on the drivers. So I guess it would also depend on what the PS3 sends through, and if the PS3 gets additional options to influence this.

 

[infinity4]

if they can keep 720p/1080p etc @ 16:9 ratio that would be fine regardless of what resolution the monitor displays at (obviously bigger than 1280x720).
but that is based on assumption that i am buying a ps3, i have been delaying purchase for ages since i am busy with other stuff and i am also looking at whether microsoft will deal with disc scratches (out of topic), so i just wanted to be informed about monitors.

 

[archangelmorph]

So what's the difinitive word on PS3 compatible monitors?

Maybe someone could whip up a guide to "getting your PS3 <-> Monitor connected" which covers everything in this thread and beyond?

 

[Arwin]

if they can keep 720p/1080p etc @ 16:9 ratio that would be fine regardless of what resolution the monitor displays at (obviously bigger than 1280x720).
but that is based on assumption that i am buying a ps3, i have been delaying purchase for ages since i am busy with other stuff and i am also looking at whether microsoft will deal with disc scratches (out of topic), so i just wanted to be informed about monitors.

16:10 looks like this on my screen now (sorry, not a great camera, it barely exceeds the screen's resolution ) (these are all 1920x1080p screens scaled to the screen's 1680x1050 resolution):

 

[kyleb]

That car looks really tall and skinny.

 

[Arwin]

That car looks really tall and skinny.

Yep, that's the screen where you notice it best.

 

[Geezer]

Can anyone with a 226BW in PAL territories help me please? I'm thinking about buying one:smile:

With the PS3 hooked up via DVI what happens when you play a 50Hz only PS1 or PS2 game or a R2 DVD? Does the monitor reject the 50Hz signal?

Geezer

 

[Arwin]

Can anyone with a 226BW in PAL territories help me please? I'm thinking about buying one:smile:

With the PS3 hooked up via DVI what happens when you play a 50Hz only PS1 or PS2 game or a R2 DVD? Does the monitor reject the 50Hz signal?

Geezer

I haven't tested, but it's probably save to say that if the 225BW does it, the 226 will too.

Seriously though, pretty much all screens I know of can handle 50,60 and 75. I doubt this one will be any different. I'll test it though.

 

[one]

The best solution that I have (and I'm actully running this config + suggested it to another friend) is

Dell 2407 FPW + HDMI <-> Dvi Cable.

2407 FPW supports 1080P and HDMI, no doubt about that, and it can handle the DVI signal very well, even able to scale up 720P by aspect up to 1080 quite nicely.
The monitor sells for about 650 USD, and seems like a great deal to me
Also great for using as a computer monitor

For Dell 2407 (not HC) you have to make sure it has the latest firmware (A04), since older firmwares don't support 16:9 input (dot by dot) for 1080p and have other bugs. If it's the latest one I definitely recommend it for a cheap PC monitor for PS3 use over other 24-inch monitors such as the BenQ HDMI model which doesn't support 16:9 at all.


My LCD Guide:

TN panels

5ms> response speed, 16.19 million (or quasi 16.77 million) colors, 170> viewing angle

Cheaper price. Not recommended for Photoshop because of color banding and narrower viewing angle, recommended only if you are hyper sensitive to ghosting.

VA panels (including AUO MVA, SAMSUNG PVA, etc)

6ms< response speed (gray to gray) w/ overdrive, 16.77 million colors, 178 viewing angle

Better still image quality. With a GTG response speed less than 8ms I think it became acceptable for watching movies. But still you may see a blur when you quickly move your viewpoint in a shooter game. More expensive

For PS3, 1080p input, HDCP, and 16:9 aspect ratio are important. Recently released monitors usually support HDCP. In the aspect ratio settings for a monitor you see 1:1, fullscreen and dot-by-dot, you need dot-by-dot (or equivalent) to correctly show 1080p images. Some monitors have different firmware properties (and different panels) even for a single model, so you have to check details on forums before you purchase it. Also there are glare/glossy panels, if you like TV/CRT feel a glossy panel may be OK, otherwise I recommend a non-glare panel. An AUO VA panel has a more sober look than Samsung PVA.

There are other panels such as Sharp ASV and Hitachi S-IPS, they have similar properties to VA panels, but have better image quality and are used for Sharp LCD TVs and pro-use monitors. But of course very expensive.