Phil Harrison's GDC keynote - Home, LittleBigPlanet & more

[Shifty Geezer]

It also shows their implementation has to take much longer to launch. I mean, Miis are cute and all, but their primary purpose seems to be to mix personalization into the games, and it has quite little purpose online.

Personalization in games is also very limited. Only a handful of first-party titles use them. I can't see any reason to think Nintendo were planning something like Home. There online on GC was worse than PS2s, and their console isn't equipped to render particular extensive, heavily populated environments. There's also nothing in their current or announced online structure that I know of that offers the Live! like online feature-set in a different format. Did they think of having lobbies with 3D avatars to meet up two years ago, and then not only drop the idea of 3D avatars, but also the idea of unified lobbies? Also how can it be a Mii-too idea if Nintendo never announced those plans?! (ell, as they haven't any online games yet, we don't know what they have. But it's Mii-too if they copy Live! )

I'm disappointed Nintendo commented this way. They've generally been above this tit-for-tat. They've played their game to their rules and let MS and Sony trade PR nonsense.

 

[nAo]

More here: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=159573

I see..so they invented avatars then..

 

[patsu]

If Home was the big system seller people are claiming it is, then wouldn't that kind of success have already happened with an MMORPG, at some point in the past?

I think we will only know if it's a system seller or not after launch. Now it's just an impressive work-in-progress.

MMORPG is a game. PS Home is a horizontal, multi-party online platform (like Xbox Live and yet *different*). They may look similar (e.g., Sims Online vs PS Home), but we should expect different experiences and objectives between them (e.g., EA booth vs E3 2005). There will be overlaps but good developers will value add and differentiate themselves from PS Home.

Today, the only really successful MMORPG (WoW) doesn't have apartments or really any other "Sims" type features, and certainly doesn't base its success on those things. However, I already play another MMORPG in which I can:

1) own and furnish an apartment
2) have visitors in my apartment and visit theirs
3) show trophies of my achievements within my apartment
4) customize my avatar within spitting distance of Home
5) chat and interact with people in open or private social settings
6) play a variety of mini-games with others
7) watch others play those mini-games

And yet most of you probably wouldn't be able to name the game, and would never try it if you knew, just because it's an MMORPG and isn't WoW.

So what is it about Home that you think will conquer the MMORPG stigma?

They have different objectives. PS Home is free so you can try it out at your own sweet time.

It's like YouTube. I don't create videos myself, but every now and then people forward me links to interesting videos. I end up visiting YouTube a couple times a week, some lead to further actions (e.g., researching more on the stupid but funny "HardGay" video someone here posted). Someday, I might just upload a video... but not in the near future. However this does not mean that I cannot enjoy Youtube.

Once the content in PS Home reach a critical mass, we should see referers, events, sponsored group activities with varying objectives.

It is entirely possible that the "build your own home and invite your friends" bullet point is just a beach-head. They will no longer be the (main) draw in its final form.

1) is it just the fact that Home is free?
2) is it the fact that Home looks like "real life" and most MMORPGs are based on fantasy?
3) is it the integration with PSN services (which are, in themselves, unremarkable)?
4) is it just the new hotness?

It's the total package (all of the above), the Playstation brand and the players themselves. We all share the same interests, but different people look for different things in life. The PS Home demo is impressive partly because of its depth and content variety.

On top of that, the platform owners (Sony and developers) will have to offer enough incentives/values for the people to stay. As some pointed out, the hard part is not to attract crowd, it is to make people stay. What we saw is only the enabling technology, the actual service will bring in the real meat (marketing, content, and community leaders).

Because MMORPG and PS Home have different business models. the marketing, value/content and how the mods/community leaders behave will be different. I am not sure if you can compare MMORPG and PS Home in that sense (You may only compare them at the technology and visual levels but we shall see).

However, one cool idea was suggested by the Miiworld thing.

It would be cool if you could design a detailed avatar and then whenever you buy a game that lets you create a custom character, they could just import that avatar into any of those games.

So for instance, in a game like Tiger Woods, you could already import your ready-made avatar as a created player.

It could flow the other way too. What if a car you created or customized in something like GT could be parked in your virtual Home? Instead of just virtual trophies and achievements in your virtual Home trophy room, you'd have the cars in your virtual Home garage (everyone can have mansions with garages for dozens of cars in the virtual Home world. ).

But probably, the graphics won't allow that kind of detail. Maybe if they interchange some basic data so that you'd render a simpler version of the car, avatar or whatever other objects in the Home world and then within a game, that same data would be used to render a more detailed object.

The main thing would be to save time, so you don't have to create or customize objects in every game.

There you go... a good idea for PS Home, but doesn't fit into an MMORPG agenda. See what I mean by different ?

EDIT: Zassk, I'm not sure if my points get delivered. It's a rather abstract concept: The moment you start comparing MMORPG and PS Home, you're on the wrong path. I'm saying this based on my own interpretation and experiences from running online services and marketing programs. I could be wrong too, so feel free to shoot.


EDIT 2: I hate SCE. They push their product concepts so far out that it's very difficult to explain and see, and yet attractive to many people. I'm not sure if those Sony folks risking their careers doing it are having fun or not too. What amazes me in LittleBigPlanet is it has Sony's over-the-top elements and Nintendo's cuteness and simplicity.

 

[rounin]

Their announcement makes as much sense as Sony stating Nintendo copied the Sixaxis's concept of motion control after Nintendo revealed the Wiimote.

 

[mrcorbo]

At $499 -$599 value compared to what I already own and use has to be greater. :smile:

so:
Price + unique games + unique features + community all differentiating itself a reasonable value from what I'm currently experiencing to justify owning both consoles at said price = purchase.

they are getting there and home is an example of a step in that direction to a degree

For me, the standards you set out would be very unlikely to be met at the current pricepoint. But there has been a definate increase in my desire for a PS3 and there is a strong possibility that this desire will increase and the price will decrease to the point that I will eventually pick one up. So I do understand your point.

The Home-based activities (like the pool table, for example) are actually nice filler material. We've all had times when trying to get a multiplayer game going where part of the group was ready, but was waiting for an additional member or members so you could start. This is where it would be nice to have something to do while you were waiting that was quick to get into and quick to get out of when you were ready for the "main event".

 

[nAo]

If Sony sells a console to Natoma the consoles war is over

 

[Carl B]

You're not the only one. Personally I think that Home is a joke from a gamer's standpoint. Who wants a cluttered interface when they can have everything at their fingertips with the X360 Dashboard? I'm sure some casual gamers might want to play Barbie doll and happy homemaker in Home, but I see this stuff as pretty insignificant for gaming.

Johnny, I bolded some of your points (as you can see).

Now... what is a 'gamer'? More reflection on this in a moment.

The 'cluttered interface' - answered by the XMB. You are aware of thepresence of this UI interface, are you not? Well - it'll still be there. This has been pointed out now multiple times in the thread, so it's a little grating for you to keep harping on it.

Lastly, when I read the "gamers don't play Barbie" thing, I'm reminded of the folk at AVS who make claims like "gamers don't watch movies." Do you watch movies Johnny? I know I do. And I also play games. And I also am lookng forward to playing 'Barbie doll.'

Time to look past your view of people only being able to enjoy one thing, and those things being mutually exclusive.

If Home was the big system seller people are claiming it is, then wouldn't that kind of success have already happened with an MMORPG, at some point in the past?

Today, the only really successful MMORPG (WoW) doesn't have apartments or really any other "Sims" type features, and certainly doesn't base its success on those things. However, I already play another MMORPG in which I can:

1) own and furnish an apartment
2) have visitors in my apartment and visit theirs
3) show trophies of my achievements within my apartment
4) customize my avatar within spitting distance of Home
5) chat and interact with people in open or private social settings
6) play a variety of mini-games with others
7) watch others play those mini-games

And yet most of you probably wouldn't be able to name the game, and would never try it if you knew, just because it's an MMORPG and isn't WoW.

I'm guessing Ultima Online, but let me know.

When that virtual apartment you own can stream your 'real world' media into the game, such that your firends may also experience it, when you can hang photos from anywhere as art on your virtual walls, when the monthly fee gets dropped, and when third-party corporations are able to set up castle-towns flying their banner and with a custom experience flavored to their image - then yes, I'll conceed it nearly the same. But, I don't think that day will come anytime soon - and there *is* a difference in the level of 'hotness' there.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

I see..so they invented avatars then..

 

[xatnys]

I would bet invisibility would be an option though for home.

Invisibility you say? If this extends to our avatars I wonder if one could sneak into other Homes

 

[Titanio]

Pana found this, posted it on GAF:

http://www.homebetatrial.com/

So the beta will be open to the public (yet still closed, not everyone will get in presumably).

 

[temesgen]

"People comparing Home to the Sims should try to dig a lot more into the information at disposal to get a better understanding ,else they shouldn't even be allowed to discuss the subject."

I saw the presentation and it's the sims for the PS3 plain and simple. Why people are having jizz fits about how revolutionary it is I have no idea.

How have you managed not to be banned for trolling, a quick review of your posting history will show that all of your comments are negative about Sony... You almost never site any facts or bring anything to the conversation that offers any insight or utility... The only positive thing I can say about you is your post are not as inflamatory here as over at IGN but they are as worthless...

 

[Todd33]

Gamers don't play Barbie, that maybe true but I suspect Home might be nice for a non-social gamer like myself. I don't care to play dress-up or chat with strangers. I would like to wonder around and check out mini-games and movie/game stuff. Instead of going to a 2D web page to see what EA has coming I could go into the EA Home building and see stuff pushed in real-time. Then I can wonder to Ubi or Sony, etc. Sometimes I don't feel like committing to an hour+ of gaming but still find myself checking the PSN store or Live for content, but it's presented in such a static boring fashion, just clicking through pages. With Home I can wonder a virtual world and explore, maybe even bump into a dev and ask a few questions

 

[-tkf-]

I'm guessing Ultima Online, but let me know.

I think EQ2 does this as well, and to some extent Starwars had some property owning as well, both Sony games btw ;-)

One of the weak points of WoW is actually Character customization, only gear makes you look different.

 

[Natoma]

If Sony sells a console to Natoma the consoles war is over

I owned a PS1 and PS2 you know.

Atari 2600
Colecovision
Atari 7800
NES
Gameboy
SNES
Atari Jaguar
N64
PS1
PS2
GameCube
Gameboy Advance
DS Lite

 

[temesgen]

Gamers don't play Barbie, that maybe true but I suspect Home might be nice for a non-social gamer like myself. I don't care to play dress-up or chat with strangers. I would like to wonder around and check out mini-games and movie/game stuff. Instead of going to a 2D web page to see what EA has coming I could go into the EA Home building and see stuff pushed in real-time. Then I can wonder to Ubi or Sony, etc. Sometimes I don't feel like committing to an hour+ of gaming but still find myself checking the PSN store or Live for content, but it's presented in such a static boring fashion, just clicking through pages. With Home I can wonder a virtual world and explore, maybe even bump into a dev and ask a few questions

I feel the whole social networking thing is an escape for people, you can come home and log in to the game and forget about taxes, bills and so on. I have serious questions about sony's interface, in my opinion something more like a web browser would make it easier for people to chat and engage in actual activities but then again that is assuming they have a keyboard and are in close the screen. Either way there is a huge interest in this sort of thing and I think they are on to something but the interface seems to not be quite right... The experience needs to be intuitive especially if we want women to get involved.

 

[zed]

If Home was the big system seller people are claiming it is, then wouldn't that kind of success have already happened with an MMORPG, at some point in the past?

well the single biggest pc game currently (which has more ppl than xbox live with ALL their games btw, is WOW ) theres also this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Graph_of_Second_Life_population.png
notice the trend, its looking like exponential growth (obviously cant go on for ever)
part of the reasons 3d worlds havent really taken off in the past (the users require quite a beffy computer), with the ps3 u dont have this issue, everyone has this minimum spec.

if i was at second life ild have dollar signs in front of my eyes, when ms calls ild be saying $500 million minimum. ms have to do something to counter this, it easily has the potential of turning into another google ( how ms now must wish they had brought that startup years ago )

 

[wco81]

Invisibility you say? If this extends to our avatars I wonder if one could sneak into other Homes

How about break in and steal other people's achievements or virtual trophies?

Or maybe rip off their downloaded games, maybe leech movies or music?

I guess there's the potential to make this a full-blown MMORPG in the Sims vein.

 

[Diamond.G]

I am suprised **AA hasn't screamed bloody murder. Sony is gonna allow me to share my music, and movies stored on my system to other ppl (okay only in my house but still, is there a cap on how many ppl can be in my house?). I also wonder if they will have some sort of algorithm to keep ppl from sharing full length movies. I mean I have bunch of movies I could rip to my PS3 (when I get one) and share with my father and other friends. (You know set up a virtual theatre). I like the idea, very slick, are we going to be able to launch multiplayer/singleplayer games from this interface? I watched the presentation and didn't see anything concrete.

 

[xatnys]

How about break in and steal other people's achievements or virtual trophies?

Or maybe rip off their downloaded games, maybe leech movies or music?

I guess there's the potential to make this a full-blown MMORPG in the Sims vein.

Speaking of which, I wonder what the mode of distribution for shared media will be. I'm guessing content will go through Sony's servers first? Also, I'm all for sharing movies and such, but IIRC the ps3 is rather limited in terms of the different media formats it supports, no?

 

[-tkf-]

Speaking of which, I wonder what the mode of distribution for shared media will be. I'm guessing content will go through Sony's servers first? Also, I'm all for sharing movies and such, but IIRC the ps3 is rather limited in terms of the different media formats it supports, no?

I think there will be some peer to peer stuff involved in this and some intelligent caching as well.