Killzone PS3.. in 07?

[TheChefO]

This could be exactly what Sony needs right now.

If they produce a live demo that is graphically superior to Gears it will help people belive the Sony Hype again. While this may help spur sales currently, I think it will definetly freeze the fence sitters which could be a huge boost for Sony as this is the biggest problem they have. I can't see many people owning a ps3 and a 360 this gen. 3rd party titles will be on both systems and will be almost identical to boot. This combined with a lower priced competitor doesn't bode well for ps3. However, IF they can demonstrate system superiority in a live demonstration and not numbers on a spec sheet it could be all they need to keep people that are on the fence and perhaps were leaning to 360 to reevaluate their position back to waiting/buying ps3.

If they combine a graphically superior Killzone with a handfull of other playable demos that show promise (Naughty Dog's game, Wipeout) they could grab momentum again.

 

[CEO]

This could be exactly what Sony needs right now.

If they produce a live demo that is graphically superior to Gears it will help people belive the Sony Hype again. While this may help spur sales currently, I think it will definetly freeze the fence sitters which could be a huge boost for Sony as this is the biggest problem they have. I can't see many people owning a ps3 and a 360 this gen. 3rd party titles will be on both systems and will be almost identical to boot. This combined with a lower priced competitor doesn't bode well for ps3. However, IF they can demonstrate system superiority in a live demonstration and not numbers on a spec sheet it could be all they need to keep people that are on the fence and perhaps were leaning to 360 to reevaluate their position back to waiting/buying ps3.

If they combine a graphically superior Killzone with a handfull of other playable demos that show promise (Naughty Dog's game, Wipeout) they could grab momentum again.

You mister have a POINT!

 

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

The problem is though TheChefO, Gears and Killzone have very different art directions, so even if Killzone managed to have amazing visuals that captures the cgi trailer feel, the "common" person will still say Gears looks better.

Just look at Lost Planet for example. It has a great art direction and really nice visuals, but just because it doesnt have that "bulky, gritty look" that gears has, most people easily say "meh, gears still looks way better".

Apparently, Gears set such a standard for console shooters, that at this point, imo only Halo 3 has the opportunity to steal the spotlight and claim the title, but what happens if it fails to deliver?

Its just my opinion ofc, and it is premature to say what is and what isnt, so ill leave an open door for killzone and other games to see what happens in the "console shooter with the best visuals" saga

 

[TheChefO]

The problem is though TheChefO, Gears and Killzone have very different art directions, so even if Killzone managed to have amazing visuals that captures the cgi trailer feel, the "common" person will still say Gears looks better.

Just look at Lost Planet for example. It has a great art direction and really nice visuals, but just because it doesnt have that "bulky, gritty look" that gears has, most people easily say "meh, gears still looks way better".

Apparently, Gears set such a standard for console shooters, that at this point, imo only Halo 3 has the opportunity to steal the spotlight and claim the title, but what happens if it fails to deliver?

Its just my opinion ofc, and it is premature to say what is and what isnt, so ill leave an open door for killzone and other games to see what happens in the "console shooter with the best visuals" saga

Art direction is not a problem.

If the killzone team follows the look of the trailer they are set. LP isn't a good comparison as J-dev teams like "clean graphics" which doesn't focus heavily on detail. This detail is what sells the eye that one graphic is superior over another. Not to say LP doesn't have details but the art direction leans more towards a clean look.

KZ doesn't have this problem.

If they can show:
-Gears Level Graphics running at 60fps
-GLG w/ 4xaa
-GLG with large open area and env fx (smoke etc)
-GLG with env destructability
-GLG with realistic behaving vehicles etc

Any of which will keep fence sitters on the fence or back in Sony's court. That's all Sony can hope for at the moment.

No killer app is coming anytime soon for ps3 and the price isn't going to become competitive anytime soon either. A promising demo(s) could be just what the doctor ordered for now.

 

[MasaC]

Gears Level Graphics running at 60fps

Trying to raise the expectations to unreasonable levels, eh? Not only does it have to have double the framrate of the first game, it also have to have Gears of War level graphics. All this on hardware you repeatedly have stated is roughly equal to xbox 360. Good one.

 

[TheChefO]

Trying to raise the expectations to unreasonable levels, eh? Not only does it have to have double the framrate of the first game, it also have to have Gears of Wat level graphics. All this on hardware you repeatedly have stated is roughly equal to xbox 360. Good one.

Look - In order for ps3 to be sold to gamers that do not value the BR player, it must show a demontrable advantage in gameplay. If they show up and say "hey look we can do gears too!" that won't matter. Just like the next game that comes along with gears level graphics on 360. That's old news. If it doesn't improve on what is already available on a system that is significantly cheaper then how can they expect to lure fence sitters in?

They must show a demonstrable advantage over existing games on their competitors platform in order to sell the system to those unconvinced by BR.

Otherwise, whats the point? If your a casual gamer you'd just go with the cheaper alternative and pickup your yearly copy of madden and gta4. Convince them otherwise and they gain momentum. Framerate doubling may not be possible. Perhaps good use of particle fx or physics would be more up cell's alley. I don't know. But if it demonstrates no advantage in games over xb360 then selling the system to gamers will be much more difficult when xb360 hits mainstream price levels.

 

[MasaC]

Look - In order for ps3 to be sold to gamers that do not value the BR player, it must show a demontrable advantage in gameplay. If they show up and say "hey look we can do gears too!" that won't matter. Just like the next game that comes along with gears level graphics on 360. That's old news. If it doesn't improve on what is already available on a system that is significantly cheaper then how can they expect to lure fence sitters in?

They must show a demonstrable advantage over existing games on their competitors platform in order to sell the system to those unconvinced by BR.

They have to show that Killzone has the look and feel of the trailer, yes. In short they have to show there's compelling software coming to the platform. In my opinion they are doing that just fine.

Just don't try to raise expectations to unreasonable levels like you just did. It's completely unfair.

 

[TheChefO]

They have to show that Killzone has the look and feel of the trailer, yes. In short they have to show there's compelling software coming to the platform. In my opinion they are doing that just fine.

Just don't try to raise expectations to unreasonable levels like you just did. It's completely unfair.

I said any of which, not all of which. Also what's the problem with 2x framerate anyway? Afterall ps3 is "twice as powerful" as the "xbox1.5" isn't it?

Besides I don't think Gears is the be all end all of this gen. It will be surpased graphically both on xb360 and ps3.

 

[Acert93]

Just don't try to raise expectations to unreasonable levels like you just did. It's completely unfair.

You are right, that is unfair. Gears level graphics at 60fps would be a significant reduction of the expectations Sony set.

 

[nonamer]

You are right, that is unfair. Gears level graphics at 60fps would be a significant reduction of the expectations Sony set.

I doubt you ever saw the trailer. It's not dramatically above Gears level.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

LOL. The trailer was the biggest lie of 2005. It was ridiculous. I can't believe we went from the Killzone E3 2005 presentation to Genji in only 18 months. It's hilarious. You have to admit that we've gone from claims of X360 = Xbox1.5 from Sony to "Can a PS3 game live up to Gears of War on X360". That's unbelievable guys.

 

[TheChefO]

I doubt you ever saw the trailer. It's not dramatically above Gears level.

If most considered Gears ~ KZ CGI then why would the dev shoot for anything above the level of Gears? Anything above this level would be a waste of time/budget.
I think most people can clearly tell the difference and if they only reach the level of Gears then they will have done the ps3 a disservice. Reaction in the press would be, "great they matched the level xb360 was at last year". ho-hum
It needs to clearly be above this level and if it isn't then they need to keep it wrapped until it is ready to distinguish itself as superior.

Nevermind the fact it will fall short of the trailer, if it falls short of gears+ ... Ruh-Roh Reorge.

People will be looking to this title as the reason to get a ps3. How does it measure up against the best on 360. It matters not that people will or won't be interested in the game per se. It will be used as a measuring stick against xb360 to see what the platform is capable of. Simlar to how GT3 was viewed by many on ps2. That was the "wow" game that showed what the system was capable of.

With the KZ CGI trailer in e3 2005 Sony has set this title up as the "wow" game for ps3. Some could argue Motorstorm was that title but I believe this is selling the system short. I believe it can do much better. All eyes will be on a playable KZ demo and first thing will be "it doesn't match the trailer" but the next will be "ok how does it stack up against it's competition".

Good luck devs.

 

[liolio]

Art direction is not a problem.

If the killzone team follows the look of the trailer they are set. LP isn't a good comparison as J-dev teams like "clean graphics" which doesn't focus heavily on detail. This detail is what sells the eye that one graphic is superior over another. Not to say LP doesn't have details but the art direction leans more towards a clean look.

KZ doesn't have this problem.

If they can show:
-Gears Level Graphics running at 60fps

Do we know if Geow is cpu or gpu limited?
If GeoW is cpu limited, the ps3 could do better.
If the game is gpu limited, the ps3 will be in a worse situation.

-GLG w/ 4xaa

Very unlikely in my opinion, huge bandwith issue

-GLG with large open area and env fx (smoke etc)

I can't see the ps3 doing better here than the 360, two issues : available ram (for huge environment), and fillrate/bandwith for particles. Look at lost planet, devs have been fighting even with the edram providing some neat advantage here.
If cell can helps please correct me.

-GLG with env destructability
-GLG with realistic behaving vehicles etc

That's where the ps3 is likely to outshine the 360.

Any of which will keep fence sitters on the fence or back in Sony's court. That's all Sony can hope for at the moment.

No killer app is coming anytime soon for ps3 and the price isn't going to become competitive anytime soon either. A promising demo(s) could be just what the doctor ordered for now.

I agree on that
And for the ones attacking you on the matter of setting to hight expectation, I think they should redirect
theirs complains at sony hype machine.
causal gamers expected the ps3 to DESTROY the 360.

 

[nonamer]

If most considered Gears ~ KZ CGI then why would the dev shoot for anything above the level of Gears? Anything above this level would be a waste of time/budget.

I doubt you ever saw the KZ trailer either.

 

[TheChefO]

I doubt you ever saw the KZ trailer either.

Butter smooth Scripted animation
Multimillion poly budget per character (check the wrinkles in the clothes)
64x AA (rendered)
Highres textures on EVERYTHING
Realistic Smoke FX
Rendering distance of miles

Add it all up. Then use the search function on this forum to check the facts. (see Laa-Yosh's posts on the matter)
Individually they are impressive but all together they are impossible this gen.

Judging from your repsonses I doubt you ever saw the KZ trailer. Either that or you've never seen Gears.
Let me help:
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1668
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1650

 

[dobwal]

If Sony/GG thinks that just mimmicking the graphics of the trailer is going to lead to a great game then I have one word for them, Doom.

Gears of War is more than just about IQ. You don't have thousands of gamers spending millions of hours on live just to look at pretty graphics. Killzone's graphics won't have to equal the 2005 trailer if it can deliver compelling gameplay. I think Motorstorm has already shown this phenomenom.

Visual discrepancy will be an easy mark for detractors but if KZ provides a AAA level experience then who really cares? I think most gamers would rather have that than the PS3/GG version of Doom.

 

[rounin]

I think we're getting out of perspective here. KZ is hardly a reason for people to get PS3. In fact, I think most people thinking of getting a PS3 don't even care about it. Why? Because theres MGS4, GT, R&C, F1, Final Fantasy, etc.

Sure, KZ has a presence, but I think people from the Xbox camp are trying to building this up too much because they know theres a high probability for it to let people down.

 

[TheChefO]

If Sony of GG thinks that just mimmicking the graphics of the trailer is going to lead to a great game then I have one word for them, Doom.

Gears of War is more than just about IQ. You don't have thousands of gamers spending millions of hours on live just to look at pretty graphics. Killzone's graphics won't have to equal the 2005 trailer if it can deliver compelling gameplay. I think Motorstorm has already shown this phenomenom.

Visual discrepancy will be an easy mark for detractors but if KZ provides a AAA level experience then who really cares? I think most gamers would rather have that than the PS3/GG version of Doom.

Agreed game>graphics but I don't think KZ has this luxury.

Whether Sony or Guerilla like it or not, this title will be the benchmark for what ps3 is able to do. Fence sitters will judge ps3 accordingly unless Sony can come up with something else this year that blows gears out of the water.

All eyes are on KZ though. Sony made this bed and they will have to lay in it.

Considering what the team did with ps2 though I think they will have a great looking game. How it plays is irrelevant for ps3. Sure if it plays like garbage (bad ai, buggy, unresponsive, etc) it will kill the franchise but some people are still holding onto the idea that ps3 will outclass xb360. This is the title they are looking at for proof.

 

[almighty]

I bet my left testicle that KZ will be out this year on PS3. Although im not bgetting the other testicle on it looking the same as/better then the trailer

 

[nonamer]

Butter smooth Scripted animation

That and the extremely high level of polish of the trailer are the only things that are really hard to believe.

Multimillion poly budget per character (check the wrinkles in the clothes)

Wrinkles in clothing are usually done with normal mapping. Not really that hard. There are moments when certain objects seem have much more polygons than they should, but these are fairly small objects.

64x AA (rendered)

Didn't see that.

Highres textures on EVERYTHING

Not that either.

Realistic Smoke FX

Not that realistic.

Rendering distance of miles

There are way to turn objects in the far distance into an background image. Not that unrealistic.

Add it all up. Then use the search function on this forum to check the facts. (see Laa-Yosh's posts on the matter)
Individually they are impressive but all together they are impossible this gen.

Judging from your repsonses I doubt you ever saw the KZ trailer. Either that or you've never seen Gears.
Let me help:
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1668
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1650

Let me give you a clue: This is an actually screencap:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614722/killzone-ps3-20060113105049144.jpg

First thing you notice is that textures are average, and there is aliasing, so there is probably 4xAA or something. Fire and smoke aren't that amazing. Compare this to GoW:

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/744/744356/gears-of-war-20061107035031378.jpg

It's very similar. Note that Gears has no AA whatsoever.