Is It Unethical For Companies To Misrepresent Their Products?

[RobertR1]

I made an "ethics" post in another thread and received all sorts of fun neg. feedback for it. Perhaps it's more appropriate here.

People like being taken for a ride by marketing and PR. These departments exist because we routinely fall for it. It is unethical but it's also the product of our own weakness that is being exploited. Unless we as a society smarten up, expect this barrage to continue. No successful corporation is free of this. Infact, a lot of them are successful in a large part due to this. And if one company is doing well due to this, then by God, why should the others sit back and watch while they lose out on business?

 

[Crayon]

The xbox demographic is one of cutting edge anyway. These same people (myself included) were ready for next gen.

That's not true.

I never owned an XBox but I've ammassed a little stack of XBox games. Theyre mine. Things like Armed and Dangerous and Outrun and Orta. Games I wasn't going to miss out on but wasn't going to buy a whole new system just to play. This meant I had to have a few friends with XBoxs- so I could borrow the XBox on the occassion I got a game I wanted to play.

These guys where, without exception, the more casual gamers. I'm the "go to guy" when they have questions about games. In a few cases I recommended the XBox to them because I thought the slicker interface and "lifestyle" features would be good for them. Imagine how stupid I felt when I had to answer the inevitable "so are they going to still make XBox 1 games" query.

"Um. Well they're still going to make games. Just not new ones. Have you tried Outrun yet? It's really fun...."

Alot... a huge amount of guys bought a 199 XBox and got left out in the cold with no warning after a year. Pretty weak when you contrast PS2 support.

 

[bobthebub]

That's not true.

Your subsequent post did not contradict the statement you were referring to.

If XBOX fans are cutting edge as ThChefo proposed do you think they will care if XBOX has been dropped when the new box arrives, of course not, by definition if they are cutting edge they are ready to drop the readies for the new box as soon as it arrives and don't give a frig if the old one has been left without support.
I am kind of with them there, I think 4 years is the sweet spot for console replacement cycles (totally a personal opinion) by around 4 years PC's will be pissing all over the consoles tech wise and I am ready for a replacement.

At the same time I think it's great that Sony continue to support previous gen - value for everyone, I just wish they could get the new consoles out the door quicker.

 

[-tkf-]

by around 4 years PC's will be pissing all over the consoles tech wise and I am ready for a replacement.

They can be pissing all they want, the XBOX and the PS2 produced/produces games that not only piss but also gives the PC the finger, steals it´s gf,kids,mansion and takes all the glory home from the party called games. Hell some of the games even look more impressive than the PC, just in a lower res.. it´s actually all kinds of awesome

 

[Crayon]

Your subsequent post did not contradict the statement you were referring to.

Maybe I wasn't clear....

Maybe some XBox owners where happy with the support going from full steam to zero in the space of 3 months. It certainly wasn't all of them. I vertainly didn't know any. The guys I know with XBoxs are not cutting edge guys. Most of them didn't seem to notice the support stopping but a couple of them felt pretty burned because they just bought the thing a year earlier.

So I am contradicting his post by saying the statement "XBox owners are cutting edge and ready for a new XBox" is false. It's a blanket statement that is more convenient than true.

 

[archie4oz]

I remember seeing the whole interview, and it's amusing how things are taken out of context. What you don't see (although you can if you search for the entire video) is that they were discussing Resistence Fall of Man, in fact Tretton is still going on about it when the interviewer brings up the point about real-time vs. CG footage (he's still talking about Ted Price (of Insomniac) and Resistence) while the show producers are sliding in footage of the Killzone trailer for the broadcast...

 

[fearsomepirate]

Xbox fans were cutting edge if they bought it shortly after launch. However, after the DX9 wave of PC titles hit a couple years ago (was Far Cry the beginning?), nothing about the Xbox was "cutting edge" anymore.

 

[dskneo]

That was not presented as realtime footage of a game in development.

And I've personally seen graphics that far exceed that tech demo.

Ninja Gaiden

Splinter Cell: Chao Theory

Riddick

Doom 3

sure
http://www.theautochannel.com/mania/video-games/Features_xbox.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/mania/video-games/movies/x_box_movie_dance.mpg <- robot techdemo vid

edit: this was the CG-target of the "techdemo", the actual techdemo came a few time later and it sucked compared to the CG microsoft hyped about. I cant find it though..

 

[Hardknock]

sure
http://www.theautochannel.com/mania/video-games/Features_xbox.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/mania/video-games/movies/x_box_movie_dance.mpg <- robot techdemo vid

edit: this was the CG-target of the "techdemo", the actual techdemo came a few time later and it sucked compared to the CG microsoft hyped about. I cant find it though..

What's your point? You don't think the games I listed are better graphically than a single undetailed female and robot dancing in a black room?

 

[-tkf-]

What's your point? You don't think the games I listed are better graphically than a single undetailed female and robot dancing in a black room?

I´m sorry mate but ehmm lol

 

[TheChefO]

That's not true.

I never owned an XBox but I've ammassed a little stack of XBox games. Theyre mine. Things like Armed and Dangerous and Outrun and Orta. Games I wasn't going to miss out on but wasn't going to buy a whole new system just to play. This meant I had to have a few friends with XBoxs- so I could borrow the XBox on the occassion I got a game I wanted to play.

These guys where, without exception, the more casual gamers. I'm the "go to guy" when they have questions about games. In a few cases I recommended the XBox to them because I thought the slicker interface and "lifestyle" features would be good for them. Imagine how stupid I felt when I had to answer the inevitable "so are they going to still make XBox 1 games" query.

"Um. Well they're still going to make games. Just not new ones. Have you tried Outrun yet? It's really fun...."

Alot... a huge amount of guys bought a 199 XBox and got left out in the cold with no warning after a year. Pretty weak when you contrast PS2 support.

... Ok ... so their actions offended you because your collection of games were rendered useless by dropping support ...which limited your ability to get new games for a console you don't own ...

Agreed my statement was a general one and of course I should not speak for everyone. But honestly if you were a budget/late gamer last gen, why would you be buying an xbox last gen anyway when ps2 was a much better value?

And the robot tech demo, as hardknock pointed out, was surpassed graphically (aside from the AA of course).

 

[Crayon]

Nonono.

I'm saying that alot of people -a few of which I know personally- bought an XBox and got less than a year of support for it. Support for sucseful systems usually tapers off and transitions to the new. Look at PS1 and 2. Sega even tried a clumsy stair-stepping overlap going from the Genesis to Saturn. Nintedo probably does the best and most consistant job of all supporting overlapping platforms.

XBox support was full steam ahead. Then there was an MTV special and projects were either moved to 360 or cancelled alltogether. Not a word was said about the system. It was a succesful console and got dropped like it was a failure. It was sudden.

And yeah, I agree that it was a shitty thing for alot of users. The idea that they were cutting edge and had no problem with it is silly.

 

[TheChefO]

The idea that they were cutting edge and had no problem with it is silly.

Did that many casual gamers really buy a xbox last gen for it's future support? Seriously I saw this coming years ago. After Forza I knew there would be pretty much nothing coming to the system (xbox 2 rumors were running rampant and most thought late 2005)and I think their sales prove my mindset wasn't alone. Xbox1 titles and system sales slowed to a crawl after 360 launched. They still had new titles released late last year and a lot of xbox users stopped buying them. Heck when did "Black" come out? To expect that MS would have the same level of support for xbox1 as Sony has for ps2 is a bit naive based on userbase, losses/console, and resources available (360 or xbox).

on topic - can anyone confirm: toshinden first doctered screens?

 

[Hardknock]

I´m sorry mate but ehmm lol

http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2005/137/928401_20050518_screen009.jpg

http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2004/screen0/561532_20040220_screen010.jpg

http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2004/screen0/561532_20040115_screen009.jpg

http://games.kikizo.com/media/ninjagaiden1_1/00.jpg

Take your pick. While there are no games with a huge robot and G.I. Jane to properly compare this to. These screens are much more detailed and have far more going on with an actual environment to boot!

AA and lighting are Ace in that render however, but you must take into account that's only 2 characters on screen.

 

[avaya]

http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2005/137/928401_20050518_screen009.jpg

http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2004/screen0/561532_20040220_screen010.jpg

http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2004/screen0/561532_20040115_screen009.jpg

http://games.kikizo.com/media/ninjagaiden1_1/00.jpg

Take your pick. While there are no games with a huge robot and G.I. Jane to properly compare this to. These screens are much more detailed and have far more going on with an actual environment to boot!

AA and lighting are Ace in that render however, but you must take into account that's only 2 characters on screen.

I really don't like getting involved in this sort of discussion but I have to say that out of this current generation PS2 matched and exceeded it's technical demo's in either in-game or real time cut-scene while GC and Xbox came no where near their tech demo's (Zelda trailer and Raven).

It seems for next generation Sony's the one whose gonna struggle to match their demo's since so many of them were total fantasy.

 

[Crayon]

Did that many casual gamers really buy a xbox last gen for it's future support? Seriously I saw this coming years ago. After Forza I knew there would be pretty much nothing coming to the system (xbox 2 rumors were running rampant and most thought late 2005)and I think their sales prove my mindset wasn't alone. Xbox1 titles and system sales slowed to a crawl after 360 launched. They still had new titles released late last year and a lot of xbox users stopped buying them. Heck when did "Black" come out? To expect that MS would have the same level of support for xbox1 as Sony has for ps2 is a bit naive based on userbase, losses/console, and resources available (360 or xbox).

on topic - can anyone confirm: toshinden first doctered screens?

Well. We stated both out sides. I don't see where we can go from there.

I still have the magazines where those print ads first show up. WHen they still had the polygon man. The purple head thing. The one I remember is Ridge Racer. They blew up a portion of a screen really huge and they did present it pixelated. But there was obviously way more pixels than the game actually outputted!

Also, in Next Generation number 8 (and I'm telling you this from my steal trap memory, believe it or not) there was a letter complaining about them putting an SGI render of wipeout on the cover of NG#7 with the caption "even when Sony Playstation games look this good".

So I'd say the practice started when 3d game development started and publishers had super-high quality assets at hand to show off. Road Rash 3DO (EA) is the first game I remember that tried to pass off renders as gameplay.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Nonono.

I'm saying that alot of people -a few of which I know personally- bought an XBox and got less than a year of support for it.

I'm gonna guess that those people didn't get the whole backlog of good games for the Xbox. Tell them to quit whining unless they have Jet Set Radio Future, Crimson Skies, Chronicles of Riddick, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Splinter Cells 1, 2, and 3, Full Spectrum Warrior, NFL 2K5, Ninja Gaiden, PGR2, Forza, Otogis 1 & 2, Republic Commando, and Fable. Just off the top of my head, I'd be looking to buy those games if I had an Xbox.

And if it's their only console, tell them to double-dare stop whining until they get Prince of Persias Sands of Time & Two Thrones, Black, Burnout 3, Mercenaries, Soul Calibur 2, and Fight Night Round 2 (or 3).

And that's just to get them started. Seriously, people who look at any of the 3 consoles (and for that matter, Dreamcast as well) and say "I can't find any games to play" just tick me off. Almost every platform ever released has at least 20 games worth playing, probably more. There are few exceptions.

P.S.Gamecube matched/exceed the Zelda demo a long time ago. Maybe not in a 1-on-1 fighting game per se, but the graphics of Rebel Strike are every bit as impressive if not more so. People just get all emotional about Zelda fighting Ganondorf and confuse their emotions with amazing graphics.

 

[Crayon]

I agree with the basic idea there. But people want to know what's coming up. What's new. You know?

 

[fearsomepirate]

I agree with the basic idea there. But people want to know what's coming up. What's new. You know?

I know exactly what you're talking about. I used to feel that way about Gamecube until I realized "Wait a minute...I never buy brand-new video games because they're too expensive. Why am I spending all my time complaining about the slow pace of new games when there are so many games already on the shelf I haven't played yet? A game is new to me if I haven't played it, and that's really all that matters." And that, my friend, is exactly how marketing doesn't want you to think.

 

[fearsomepirate]

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