PlayStation 4 (codename Orbis) technical hardware investigation (news and rumours)

[Shifty Geezer]

I wanted to write something about the always on requirements that is slowly but surely becoming a big part of games and console services, and how incredible fragile this is turning out to be. But i couldn't find the right thread..

Feel free to start a new one!

 

[3dilettante]

I've seen a few anecdotal reports of the digital versions of some games flaking out on PSN validation errors when it went down.
Is that a phone-home deal or possibly some kind of account issue where users haven't made their PS4s their account's primary console?

 

[DrJay24]

I don't think that is really true, at least there are many more reports that people were playing digital games offline fine. I could play my copy of Garden Warfare fine, but just could not connect to servers. The app laucnhed without issue.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126967643&postcount=5572

Edit: Maybe you are correct, the primary console thing might be an issue, otherwise they have no way to know if you own the game without checking the net.

 

[Globalisateur]

I've seen a few anecdotal reports of the digital versions of some games flaking out on PSN validation errors when it went down.
Is that a phone-home deal or possibly some kind of account issue where users haven't made their PS4s their account's primary console?

If I had turned on the PS4 with the Internet cable, I couldn't play any digital games even after unplugging the cable.

But if I restarted completely the PS4 without the Internet cable, a whole cold start, then I could play offline all my digital games. But it needed a cold start, a standby only Off/On wasn't enough.

So my guess is that some people didn't even try to completely turn off their PS4 with the Internet off (or only tried a regular standby off/on) and thought their digital games were somehow blocked even being offline.

 

[MrFox]

I'm thinking that when the game start it checks for updates, trophies, cloud saves, etc... so if the network is up, and it can open a socket with the server, the DDoS would cause data loss, or trickle data so slowly that the gamer has to wait for a timeout, plenty of issues.

So far everyone said that it worked when they disconnected the network. There's no indication that there's any restriction in place to play offline, other than the "secondary" console restriction, obviously.

 

[shredenvain]

I don't think that is really true, at least there are many more reports that people were playing digital games offline fine. I could play my copy of Garden Warfare fine, but just could not connect to servers. The app laucnhed without issue.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126967643&postcount=5572

Edit: Maybe you are correct, the primary console thing might be an issue, otherwise they have no way to know if you own the game without checking the net.

Isnt Garden Warfare online only MP?

 

[DrJay24]

Ya, but there was no license error, just that servers could not be reached.

 

[onQ]

Maybe they see this as the prefect time to go after VR,MR & AR Gaming & having a camera on your head as part of the headset is a easy way to see what the player is seeing in the real world so they can use it in the game. if you have the PlayStation Eye go into EyeCreate & place the PS-Eye on top of your head stick your hands out in front of you while looking at the TV you will quickly realize that this is the way that the EyeToy \EyePet & other AR games should have been played in First Person View. the only problem being that the TV will be picked up by the camera creating a endless loop but that's easily fixed by using AR to make your TV a game menu or something when it's picked up by the camera.

Also think about the code name for the PlayStation 4 it's Orbis.

"Orbis in English
circle, orb, ring, disk, orbit, coil/ round / rotation."


To me that goes perfect with the idea of having the camera on your head & placing the game around you.

look at the controller it's an AR Marker.

I'm in my room now with the PlayStation Eye on top of my head looking around my room & it's actually scary to think about someone making a scary game with stuff popping up in your room & the lights blink on the TV & switch to the camera that's pointing at you & it shows something standing behind you all while using 3D Sound .

Unless the screen is moving with you (headset), a head-mounted camera is pretty useless. And I doubt Sony will be including a headset with every PS4!

Not true. I actually tried this with the PlayStation Eye on top of my head & looking at the TV while moving my head around you can pretty much get over 70% of your room into view without taking your eyes off the TV & reaching out & touching stuff while looking at it on the TV is completely natural.

It would work perfectly with AR & will also be good for VR if the Dual Camera on top of your TV is tracking your body in 3D & the camera on your head is giving the game perfect head tracking & a better view of your hands when you are reaching out so they can be used in the game, & add Pseudo 3D to the mix using the head tracking & you will have a pretty good recipe for console VR.

But turning while watching a different direction is plain odd (and doesn't work with small spectacle. I can only accommodate a small degree of head rotation before I'm looking beyond the glasses and am unable to see. A head mounted camera would effectively be locked to pointing at the TV space. Dual simulated arms tracking skeleton or controllers makes a lot more sense to me. They'll be properly composited and you can use controls for movement and stuff.

Your Head move but your eyes stay on the TV the PlayStation Eye has a pretty wide field of view so you don't have to make big movements to look around & you still have your controller for making full turns & walking around this is simply tracking your head movements close to 1:1 & also tracking your hands from your point of view so when you reach into the game the game is getting the same view of your hands that you're seeing in the real world besides the fact that you can move your eyes Interdependent from your head.

Quite possibly the worst idea they could go with. In my mind it's VR or bust, and there's absolutely no reason to have a forward facing camera on your head for VR. Maybe VR shows up as the mid-gen peripheral the way Kinect and Move did this time around. AR seems like a waste, to me.

Guess I'm not the only one who thought a head mounted camera was a good idea for hand tracking in AR/VR games. Leap Motion can now be mounted onto the Oculus Rift for hand/finger tracking.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I like the way you quote past comments as if everyone was wrong and you were right. And by 'like', I mean dislike.

1) I already said it'd make sense in a headset

Unless the screen is moving with you (headset), a head-mounted camera is pretty useless. And I doubt Sony will be including a headset with every PS4!

Your link is to a device to stick on a headset.

2) You persisted in talking about a camera on your head while using a TV

Not true. I actually tried this with the PlayStation Eye on top of my head & looking at the TV while moving my head around you can pretty much get over 70% of your room into view without taking your eyes off the TV & reaching out & touching stuff while looking at it on the TV is completely natural.

This doesn't support your idea at all.

3) The one aspect of your idea you had that makes sense and which Leap is providing is hand tracking for VR via cameras from the user's POV, and that's an idea I never criticised.

 

[onQ]

I like the way you quote past comments as if everyone was wrong and you were right. And by 'like', I mean you come across a douche.

1) I already said it'd make sense in a headset
Your link is to a device to stick on a headset.

2) You persisted in talking about a camera on your head while using a TV
This doesn't support your idea at all.

3) The one aspect of your idea you had that makes sense and which Leap is providing is hand tracking for VR via cameras from the user's POV, and that's an idea I never criticised.

No that's all in your head because I didn't quote you to say you was wrong & I was right. I quoted so that it would show the full context of the post. Also the device does support what I was saying about the camera being attached to your head to track your hands better.The part about the TV was about AR but I also said it would be good for VR which is what they are using it for.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No that's all in your head because I didn't quote you to say you was wrong & I was right. I quoted so that it would show the full context of the post.

That'd have been a lot clearer if you just quoted your idea about the hand tracking. eg.

Leap Motion added to Oculus Rift.

Guess I'm not the only one who thought a head mounted camera was a good idea for hand tracking in AR/VR games.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1708130&postcount=598

this is simply tracking your head movements close to 1:1 & also tracking your hands from your point of view so when you reach into the game

Four of your quotes aren't really related to the final idea and don't add clarification (only obscure things), while Scott's quote seems only included to show he was wrong. Why else include it? If I read it wrong, I apologise, but you should could have made it clearer but including less history.

 

[onQ]

That'd have been a lot clearer if you just quoted your idea about the hand tracking. eg.



Four of your quotes aren't really related to the final idea and don't add clarification (only obscure things), while Scott's quote seems only included to show he was wrong. Why else include it? If I read it wrong, I apologise, but you should could have made it clearer but including less history.

The conversation was in bits and pieces so In my mind the less I would have quoted the more it would have seemed that I was just trying to take a small part of a conversation to make it seem as if this was exactly what I was talking about. You're quoted saying that it would make sense if it's connected to a headset if I would have left that out it would seem as if I was trying to hide that fact & only make it seem that I was saying it would work while everyone else was saying that it wouldn't. Scott's quoted because the product explains to him the point of a front facing camera for VR.

 

[babcat]

Could two PS4s be networked together to boost the fps of a game to make it acceptable for Morpheus?

 

[iroboto]

Could two PS4s be networked together to boost the fps of a game to make it acceptable for Morpheus?

Not likely as a frame boost. But i think without some major pain if Morpheus allowed for two separate inputs than they could sync up and draw two separate images for each eye 1 per ps4. But honestly any type of mismatch on frame would make you puke likely.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Games would have to be designed for it. Connected via Ethernet, latencies from the controlling console to the slave should be minimal, and you could render alternate eyes comfortably in sync. You could also pipe the rendered image from the slave console to the master over Ethernet and composite into the output down HDMI to the headset. It'd have to be compressed video though.

 

[Globalisateur]

btw the standby on xbox1 is more power hungry
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/5

maybe sony faced similar problem, they can make PS4 "instant on" but its too power hungry for their comfort. dunno...

In your page linked above (taken from another thread) I found some interesting benchmark nobody had noticed before: They benchmarked the integrated web browsers of both consoles (PS4 and XB1) and the results are quite different:

They found that PS4's browser (javascript performance) is ~2X (SunSpider 1.0.2 ) to ~5X (Kraken 1.1) faster than XB1's.

 

[iroboto]

Hmmm a little OT but the standby power usage is actually more than I'd like. 15W going 24/7 seems like a waste to me. Equivalent to running a 60W bulb 6 hours a day 7 days a week. 8W is more reasonable but would love to see it drop further.

 

[Grall]

Standby power really shouldn't be more than 2-3W. It's actually so high right now that the cooling fan is constantly turning, gunking up the console with dust. I had to disable standby for the simple reason I got tired of sucking the vents free of dust...

 

[Globalisateur]

Standby power really shouldn't be more than 2-3W. It's actually so high right now that the cooling fan is constantly turning, gunking up the console with dust. I had to disable standby for the simple reason I got tired of sucking the vents free of dust...

If you disable the USB charging during stand by, your fans should be completely off during stand by.

 

[Nesh]

I have noticed that the vertical position generally generates more heat than in horizontal position. I have also found out that if the console is raised a bit in the horizontal position by placing something underneath the console's sides so that the bottom doesnt touch anything, the temperature is a lot cooler. So fans dont kick in so much

I recommend it