NVIDIA GF100 & Friends speculation

[aaronspink]

Emphasis mine. This remains to be seen.

I think its fair to say that Nvidia underperformed the competition relative to the resources used with the GT200 and I'm fairly certain that most here would agree that so far Nvidia has been under delivering wrt G100. They are looking to be 6 months late on release and all indications are that it will pretty much be a paper release.

 

[KimB]

I think its fair to say that Nvidia underperformed the competition relative to the resources used with the GT200

Perhaps, but this isn't a thread about the GT200.

and I'm fairly certain that most here would agree that so far Nvidia has been under delivering wrt G100. They are looking to be 6 months late on release and all indications are that it will pretty much be a paper release.

This is a problem with execution, not a problem with performance. Granted, I'm not horribly optimistic about its performance. I think that for nVidia to do well this generation, it really needs to outperform at least ATI's current parts.

 

[XMAN26]

I think if u have a problem with a 7.5K dolar basic license software u contact them first what is the problem not the nvidia driver team. Or the 24h exchange, if it would run on normal cards u could exchange them in less than 3 ours from every pc hardware shop. On the other hand the quadro cards are rare as hell and u wont find them anywhere.

Those pro cards are just rip-off for easy money. Do you think that profesional software vendors care about nvidia or ati profesional cards lineup. They code them for APIs not cards. The quadro cards just use this for easy money.
But of course its entirely on nvidia or ati what will they do with their property and that they will make a pro lineup just with driver differences.

Yes, one should always just run down the local store ad buy a new card when the current one being used has a warranty.

That makes about as much sences as buying a bicycle to do the job of a mountain bike. Only fools and idots would use geforce cards for Professional apps.

 

[XMAN26]

What parts of this conversation are you having trouble understanding? We've already stated that Nvidia purposely cripples the Geforce cards in various ways for OpenGL rendering. Think of it as the reverse of the normal way things work with games software: if unreal then use unreal_fast path => if not Id_game then use OpenGL slow path!

The hardware is either exactly the same or BETTER on the Geforce side than on the quadro side, the comparison you linked is basically comparing a Geforce 280 to a Quadro 260. The only reason the Quadro has better performance is because Nvidia is purposely crippling the 280.

They are not crippling anything. geforce is a consumer product, Quadro is a professional products much in the same way that the consumer based design software is greatly outclassed by the professional version. 2-300 bucks vs 1-5k, 50 bucks vs 1-10k. You get what you pay for and with quadro as Trin pointed out, you ARE also paying for the software and Top Tier First Class support for those cards. You dont get that with Geforces.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I do. And the name is cypress.
r300 was monster. A lot more processing power, a better architecture, 256bit interface, new aa...
Cypress is a small refresh of the same architecture. Nothing really new, not really fast - a lot like the NV30. It's funny that somebody could thinks, that the card would be slower than cypress. Only < 30% faster than a GTX285?

"Only < 30% faster than a GTX285" might just come back to haunt ya, I'd be careful...and I don't really agree with your Cypress assessment.

 

[GZ007]

Only fools and idots would use geforce cards for Professional apps.

Of course if u can buy several licenses for many thousand dolars than u can buy at least a Quadro FX1800 for 350 Eur or similar FirePro card. I can confirm that u can work with NX6 without problems with normal cards if u dont work with large assemblies.

 

[neliz]

The person who revived the Nv30-ish "are you ready" campaign had to be the same one who was recently arrested for the airplane bomb hoax.

I think I wrote something about that new "are you ready" campaign a couple of months back... I heard today that AMD's new slogan is "get ready for more"

 

[eastmen]

"Only < 30% faster than a GTX285" might just come back to haunt ya, I'd be careful...and I don't really agree with your Cypress assessment.

we already know they are infinatly faster than a gtx 285 in dx 11 and dx 10.1 games.


I'm sure as time goes on the 5870 will pull further away from last gen cards.

 

[AlexV]

Yes, one should always just run down the local store ad buy a new card when the current one being used has a warranty.

That makes about as much sences as buying a bicycle to do the job of a mountain bike. Only fools and idots would use geforce cards for Professional apps.

How about toning it down. Significantly. Men living in glass houses should not throw stones, so the "fool" and "idIot" formulas will take a walk starting now.

 

[Lightman]

I think I wrote something about that new "are you ready" campaign a couple of months back... I heard today that AMD's new slogan is "get ready for more"

more of what?
- performance
- power
- monitors

Any hints?

And yes, I remember you writing about that new "are you ready" campaign :smile:

 

[Arty]

Products?

5870 Six
5830
AGP?
Stream
FireGL
FirePro

 

[aaronspink]

They are not crippling anything. geforce is a consumer product, Quadro is a professional products much in the same way that the consumer based design software is greatly outclassed by the professional version. 2-300 bucks vs 1-5k, 50 bucks vs 1-10k. You get what you pay for and with quadro as Trin pointed out, you ARE also paying for the software and Top Tier First Class support for those cards. You dont get that with Geforces.

Yes, they are crippling it. They are specifically through the drivers nerfing the line and line anti-aliasing performance.

 

[XMAN26]

Yes, they are crippling it. They are specifically through the drivers nerfing the line and line anti-aliasing performance.

Oh yay. A feature that is for Professional Apps isn't on, my god, a consumer based producted and only available for the professional version. golly gee, go figure.

 

[itsmydamnation]

so after dissagreeing (your were wrong) your now belittling the point. funny how you weren't when you thought you could defend the possition

 

[XMAN26]

so after dissagreeing (your were wrong) your now belittling the point. funny how you weren't when you thought you could defend the possition

I still dont see it as crippling a product that was never intended to support a given feature meant for another line of products. It'd be like complaining about the power the V6 camero gives you instead of paying for the performance line V8 version. The 5.7L V8 in the camero is an option you MUST pay for, it isn't free. Same thing here. The features he is complaining about are ment for the higher end product.

 

[eastmen]

I still dont see it as crippling a product that was never intended to support a given feature meant for another line of products. It'd be like complaining about the power the V6 camero gives you instead of paying for the performance line V8 version. The 5.7L V8 in the camero is an option you MUST pay for, it isn't free. Same thing here. The features he is complaining about are ment for the higher end product.

I'm not sure what part of this you don't understand

NVidia makes 1 gpu and using drivers makes it perform worse at certian things. they then take this single gpu and the drivers and sell it to two diffrent markets. In one market the chip might range from $100-$600 while the other market might sell for $1000-3000 or what have you.

The only diffrence between the two for performance is what nvidia does to the drivers because they are the same chip.

 

[XMAN26]

I'm not sure what part of this you don't understand

NVidia makes 1 gpu and using drivers makes it perform worse at certian things. they then take this single gpu and the drivers and sell it to two diffrent markets. In one market the chip might range from $100-$600 while the other market might sell for $1000-3000 or what have you.

The only diffrence between the two for performance is what nvidia does to the drivers because they are the same chip.

And yet, everyone here seems to think because they are the "same chip" they are entitled to the same features on both sides even tho the costs associated with one also includes massive support the other doesn't get the luxory of.

They are a business, and as such using 1 product to fill 2 segments. Why people such as yourself and arron and other feel that they should include features to both sides equally is freakin beyond me. One segment is low cost, low support. ou get a product and driver support as they update with relatively low cost. The other side you get custom head over heals support, custom software package but pay a high price.

ATI cards are the exact same. FireGL and Radeon use the same chip, but have different BIOS and software packages and support levels. hell, there cards when compared even perform much like geforce vs quadros do. But noone is bitching about that. The only major difference is ATI doesn't charge as much for their Pro line of cards.

The point lost on arron, yourself and others is that you dont deserve something you didn't freakin pay for. Did you buy a quadro or a geforce for the profesional app you have? If Quadro then you deserve to expect the support and performance you paid for. If geforce, well, then thats your problem as that IS NOT what the geforce line is designed nor market for.

Good thing you guys dont run a business, you'd all be bankrupt giving away your full featured software on every product you sold for all market lines.

 

[eastmen]

And yet, everyone here seems to think because they are the "same chip" they are entitled to the same features on both sides even tho the costs associated with one also includes massive support the other doesn't get the luxory of.

They are a business, and as such using 1 product to fill 2 segments. Why people such as yourself and arron and other feel that they should include features to both sides equally is freakin beyond me. One segment is low cost, low support. ou get a product and driver support as they update with relatively low cost. The other side you get custom head over heals support, custom software package but pay a high price.

ATI cards are the exact same. FireGL and Radeon use the same chip, but have different BIOS and software packages and support levels. hell, there cards when compared even perform much like geforce vs quadros do. But noone is bitching about that. The only major difference is ATI doesn't charge as much for their Pro line of cards.

The point lost on arron, yourself and others is that you dont deserve something you didn't freakin pay for. Did you buy a quadro or a geforce for the profesional app you have? If Quadro then you deserve to expect the support and performance you paid for. If geforce, well, then thats your problem as that IS NOT what the geforce line is designed nor market for.

Good thing you guys dont run a business, you'd all be bankrupt giving away your full featured software on every product you sold for all market lines.

Personaly i feel if you buy a product you should be able to use the full power of what you bought. Nvidia doesn't allow this.

now I can understand all the other support a quadro card and its price tag get you. But if i want to use my geforce to do video editing or graphis creation why wouldn't i get the fullest power from it ?


All it really is , is greed on nvidia's part. if thier service was great then companys would buy that service with the card. They shouldn't have to cripple the performance of the part.


Thankfully i don't really use nvidia products or have a need for a quadro.

 

[trinibwoy]

The only diffrence between the two for performance is what nvidia does to the drivers because they are the same chip.

Is software development at Nvidia done for free? I'm not getting why you and others think that the relatively cheap Geforce line is entitled to all the bells and whistles on the software side. Care to explain?

 

[Florin]

Personaly i feel if you buy a product you should be able to use the full power of what you bought. Nvidia doesn't allow this.

Have you heard of FireGL?