Vista rant ---- MS must dump it...

[Sxotty]

I finally installed vista last night. I seems to work well, it looks a bit better. I turned off the bouncing window BS I hate animated windows of all kinds whether OSX or whatever just open the damn window...

Anyway I really don't see what the fuss is about either way yet. Nothing special. I have Ultimate not that it matters, dreamscene is annoying I don't know how anyone could deal with it....

 

[woundingchaney]

Meh... (l)users are stupid and thus Vista will rule the market just as any prior or future crap from MS. Nothing new there.

Please explain to me how I am "stupid" for running Vista.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

Please explain to me how I am "stupid" for running Vista.

You misunderstand. "most users are stupid" does not mean "Vista users are stupid". It means the average Joe doesn't have a clue when it comes to computers. They just buy whatever is marketed to them within their price range.

 

[woundingchaney]

You misunderstand. "most users are stupid" does not mean "Vista users are stupid". It means the average Joe doesn't have a clue when it comes to computers. They just buy whatever is marketed to them within their price range.

LOL

I can see it through this angle, but at the same time does MS not get credit for maintaining the most user friendly and highest supported OS on the market??

 

[_xxx_]

Please explain to me how I am "stupid" for running Vista.

You need an explanation, says it all right there

Fun aside, I meant the uneducated masses like my mom, who just knows how to use word or excell and start IE and not much more than that. There are loads of cheap PC's with like 512 MB RAM and a 1+ GHz CPU being sold with Vista for example and people buy it like hot cakes. Then they'll ask why their old programs won't run or why everything is so slow etc.

And I still see no reason to use the bloated crap called Vista besides DX10 when it becomes mandatory for games. Never saw such a crappy piece of programming in my life besides maybe Win ME.

 

[Quitch]

Bloated? In what way?

Crappy programming? How?

 

[Sxotty]

Vista in general seems good, but I don't see the advantage yet over xp pro. I haven't spent enough time with it yet to form an opinion. The media center stuff might be good though, but since my media center pc is already on the tv and this one isn't I am not going to change them.

 

[_xxx_]

Bloated? In what way?

Crappy programming? How?

You can't be serious, LOL. Get out.

 

[Albuquerque]

You can't be serious, LOL. Get out.

Well, I'd at least like to know how you can prove it's the world's crappiest programming since WinME. Where did you look at the source code? Where did you look at the binaries?

Hey, I'd even like to know how you found the source code to WinME to put it on the top of the list too. I've written some pretty good programs in my day, but when you start exceeding tens of millions of code lines, things just inherently don't work exactly the way you want them to.

So, let's see some validation of "worst programming evAR", or else let's just drop that lame argument...

 

[ShaidarHaran]

Well, I'd at least like to know how you can prove it's the world's crappiest programming since WinME. Where did you look at the source code? Where did you look at the binaries?

Hey, I'd even like to know how you found the source code to WinME to put it on the top of the list too. I've written some pretty good programs in my day, but when you start exceeding tens of millions of code lines, things just inherently don't work exactly the way you want them to.

So, let's see some validation of "worst programming evAR", or else let's just drop that lame argument...

The proof is in the pudding. You don't need to look at the ingredients list to tell the pudding tastes like ass.

 

[Albuquerque]

The proof is in the pudding. You don't need to look at the ingredients list to tell the pudding tastes like ass.

Just because the pudding isn't your favorite flavor doesn't mean the recipe nor the ingredients are bad -- which is a far more accurate description of this scenario.

Quite a few people don't like Vista for whatever their personal belief system is; so be it. But not liking a product because it doesn't do what you want does not automatically mean the product is faulty or badly engineered.

 

[Sxotty]

The proof is in the pudding. You don't need to look at the ingredients list to tell the pudding tastes like ass.

Ass doesn't sound particularly appetizing to me, yet I think Vista is perfectly fine.

 

[_xxx_]

Well, I'd at least like to know how you can prove it's the world's crappiest programming since WinME. Where did you look at the source code? Where did you look at the binaries?

Hey, I'd even like to know how you found the source code to WinME to put it on the top of the list too. I've written some pretty good programs in my day, but when you start exceeding tens of millions of code lines, things just inherently don't work exactly the way you want them to.

So, let's see some validation of "worst programming evAR", or else let's just drop that lame argument...

You're a true fan, heh?

Just look at all the problems and the neverending bug-list, disappearing activations etc., no need for any futher explanations. And as for bloated, do we REALLY need to even discuss that? LMAO.

And were there ever any doubts about the "qualities" of the ME? Say "system restore points" twenty times in a row. You kill me, man

Look, you're in love with Vista and that's fine. But don't try to tell me what I should think or feel about it, mkay? To me it IS crap, period. I'll soon be forced to use it and I really hate that, with passion.

 

[Albuquerque]

You're a true fan, heh?

Just look at all the problems and the neverending bug-list, disappearing activations etc., no need for any futher explanations.

True fan? If that means "fanboi", then you can drop it. There are issues with Vista, but there are issues with XP too. There are issues with Ubuntu, there are issues with CoreOS, there are issues with OSX, RedHat, Fedora, YellowDog. Palm, and Windows Mobile. There are issues with every single operating system on the face of this planet. Point me to a perfect OS, and point you to the fanboy in the mirror.

And as for bloated, do we REALLY need to even discuss that? LMAO.

The term "OS bloat" is a purely subjective opinion no matter the case.

And were there ever any doubts about the "qualities" of the ME? Say "system restore points" twenty times in a row. You kill me, man

I dunno, you're the one that said the programming was bad. Did you ever see the programming? I hate to use the same old tired cliched argument, but is there some possibilty that you could write 20 million lines of code and not have things go wrong while being used on ~50% of the PC hardware in existance at the time? Quite a few OSes claim fantastic stability, reliability, and user experience. But they make these claims based on a very strict and limited set of hardware and features.

Fair may not be a concept in the PC world, but it's still a relevant term when discussing in the context of an operating system. I never even played with WinME, and from what I heard -- nobody liked it at all. And while I won't argue that there's a likely reason for everyone to dislike ME, one of the things I'm not buying is that it was as simple as "bad programming". Howabout terrible code reuse and charging people for a new OS that really wasn't "new"?

But don't try to tell me what I should think or feel about it, mkay? To me it IS crap, period. I'll soon be forced to use it and I really hate that, with passion.

Care to quote me where I said anyone is required to like Vista? Care to quote me where I said you were required to even use it? If you're going to put words in my mouth, then you might as well just make up some false quotes to go along with it too. Why lie subtly when you can lie outright and have it done with?

If you don't like Vista, there's several dozen other options out there for operating systems. And I would assume your opinion of every other OS out there is far superior to that of Vista, so again, why even bother?

Further, for someone who's seemingly never even worked with the OS outside of some passer-by glance, why do you feel the need to hop into every Vista thread and tell us nothing else except that you hate it? Ok, we get it. You hate it; does that automatically mean everyone who is against you must obviously be in complete in utter love with it?

Has it occurred to you that the "gray area" around this is bigger than the binary Love/Hate options?

Your argument was the programming sucks. My argument is that you've never even seen the programming, so how can you make such a claim? You can sit here and make emotional inferences about how much you absolutely HATE LOATHE DESPISE and ANTAGONIZE over Vista, but that doesn't make it's programming (or programmer) any less astute or articulate.

I can use some incredibly shoddy programming to make a very useful application; I can use some incredibly strong programming to make a very useless application. Programming does NOT make the app.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

Just because the pudding isn't your favorite flavor doesn't mean the recipe nor the ingredients are bad -- which is a far more accurate description of this scenario.

Quite a few people don't like Vista for whatever their personal belief system is; so be it. But not liking a product because it doesn't do what you want does not automatically mean the product is faulty or badly engineered.

How about: I'm a PC technician and I don't like Vista because it's more trouble than it's worth. I spend far more time per system fixing problems on Vista than I do XP. Don't even get me started on printers.

And the new Windows Update can suck a lemon. Force-installing driver updates is a horrible idea, especially when Windows Update often installs the wrong/broken drivers!

 

[pjbliverpool]

And the new Windows Update can suck a lemon. Force-installing driver updates is a horrible idea, especially when Windows Update often installs the wrong/broken drivers!

I assume that can be turned off though? I think for joe average, automatic driver installs is a terrific idea. Not so great for enthusiasts but whats the biggest complaint you hear about PC gaming? Generally its the (largely misguided) complaint that having to install new drivers "all the time" is a pain in the ass.

Automatic driver updates completely removes that argument (as long as it only installs the latest certified drivers).

 

[Albuquerque]

How about: I'm a PC technician and I don't like Vista because it's more trouble than it's worth. I spend far more time per system fixing problems on Vista than I do XP. Don't even get me started on printers.

Is it perchance you spend more time on Vista because it's new and you don't know the shortcuts and intracacies yet? Way back in the day when I was a technician and Win95 came out, I spent far more time troubleshooting Win95 issues than I did on our established base of Win3.1 machines. Mostly it was because I didn't really know where all the "new stuff" was yet... But it didn't take long.

I'll say this from my current IT administrative perspective: Vista is FAR better for group policy control than XP is. One such example is linked to a story from the Politics and Ethics of Tech subforum here on this board, essentially about locking down USB ports. Can't do that in XP other than forcing bad drivers or gluing the ports shut or disabling pieces in the BIOS -- but you can in Vista, per user, per machine, you name it.

And as for automatic updates? Yes, you can indeed turn off the function for downloading drivers. As a free service, corporate entities of any size can maintain their own Windows Update Server, which allows you to exlicitly define which updates are published to the workstations within your domain. All updates filter in to your server, and then you allow the ones you want. Cake.

I'm going to go back to a statement I made many months ago that seems to still ring true to this day: just because you don't see the extra features (or use for them), doesn't mean they aren't there or aren't useful.

 

[Sxotty]

I'm going to go back to a statement I made many months ago that seems to still ring true to this day: just because you don't see the extra features (or use for them), doesn't mean they aren't there or aren't useful.

Well most of them are not useful to me And that is all that matters to me.

Bloat hmm that seems like ilife applications bundled. MS gets sued for monopoly when they try to bloat to that extreme.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

I assume that can be turned off though?

Nope. You just have to pray when you setup a Vista system that it doesn't automatically grab the wrong driver (or a broken one) for one or more pieces of hardware in your system.

I think for joe average, automatic driver installs is a terrific idea. Not so great for enthusiasts but whats the biggest complaint you hear about PC gaming? Generally its the (largely misguided) complaint that having to install new drivers "all the time" is a pain in the ass.

Automatic driver updates completely removes that argument (as long as it only installs the latest certified drivers).

Sure it would be great, but when Windows Update still tries to install the latest WHQL driver for ancient hardware that is no longer supported by the driver (i.e. pre-GF FX) it can get ugly.

 

[Frank]

People, remember this, if nothing else: the only reason for the existence of Vista is that Microsoft expects to make a huge amount of money out of it.

And marketing, monopoly and management decisions have far more impact into it than actual accomplishments.

Really: they doubled all prices during the introduction and do all they can to convince people that XP is bad and Vista is great. Do we really have to say more?



If we want to talk merits: what kind? The kind that makes M$ a killing? The kind that provides quite a lot IT people with a lot of extra work, and thus income? Or the kind that actually benefits users? And which one would that be? The looks?