"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

[Neb]

Those source models are an order or two of magnitude higher, they are in the millions of polygon.

Yeah source models consists often of several million polygons.

Well, I am guessing more like around 50k for the smaller level.

That is most likely true for smaller ones.

Heck VF5 characters are around 50k and you can see polygon edges in those too when view up close. Unless they find a really good and smart dynamic subdivision algorithm that can work in game it's going to be expensive removing those edges in characters and objects.

Yeah but there is a difference between hard to notice edges (small/well placed vs textures) and noticable. Asweel as how much adornaments/small stuff, clothes (soft clothes?) and muscle/form they have that adds to the polygon count.
The thing is if a KZ2 model would have as much polygons as a level, lets use the 50k number, then it would not have as much and large edges as seen in the screenshot below. Otherwise it is not easy to spot the edges at distance from the character ingame (videos).

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/img_4826656.html

 

[Laa-Yosh]

KZ2 model detail is similar, or maybe a little higher, than Gears; and Marcus Fenix without weapons is ~10500 triangles. 50K would look significantly different, more detailed and smoother.

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

KZ2 model detail is similar, or maybe a little higher, than Gears; and Marcus Fenix without weapons is ~10500 triangles. 50K would look significantly different, more detailed and smoother.

50k on kill zone thats crazy, the game doesnt even look good at least on the screens ive been looking at low res textures aparently low poly cound too.

 

[V3]

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/img_4826656.html

I can't access that image, is it insider only ?

 

[maluraq]

Direct link to the image in question:

 

[V3]

Thanks, from that distance the model has poly edges. VF5 characters with around 40k poly have poly edges too in close up.

3D models of human characters don't begin to look smooth at closeup until you get to millions of poly. Especially if they want realistic hair. In that VF5 wire mode shot, you can see that the polys are spend on the hair and face compare to other parts.

 

[Kittonwy]

I shudder to think what the zenith will be like for the fellas at Naughty Dog on the ps3.

It's not just the number of polygons but how Naughty Dog makes the most out of the polygons that's the amazing part.

 

[Kittonwy]

the main characters are around 20-30k per character depending on the complexity. I think Drake is around 30.. i dont have the numbers in front of me.

the enemies/pirates are around 12-15k.

we are trying to hide as much as we can with normal maps so the polys really dont show. Hopefully that'll come through in game!

-Rich

Uncharted is my favorite game of all time.

Just sayin'.

That's a lot of polys.

 

[Neb]

Thats true but still it is fairly easy to use the amount of edges and size of edges to roughly estimate the polygon count. How smooth looking is the different parts of the body, does it have hair and detailed face etc. Size of the faces and how many to give the form.

 

[....]

Yeah but there is a difference between hard to notice edges (small/well placed vs textures) and noticable. Asweel as how much adornaments/small stuff, clothes (soft clothes?) and muscle/form they have that adds to the polygon count.
The thing is if a KZ2 model would have as much polygons as a level, lets use the 50k number, then it would not have as much and large edges as seen in the screenshot below. Otherwise it is not easy to spot the edges at distance from the character ingame (videos).

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/img_4826656.html

vf5 fighter

The edges in vf5 are comparable, as v3 has shown.

KZ2 model detail is similar, or maybe a little higher, than Gears; and Marcus Fenix without weapons is ~10500 triangles. 50K would look significantly different, more detailed and smoother.

Marcus is a cylindrical/thick beast. The killzone models have a more humanlike form.

 

[StefanS]

vf5 fighter

The edges in vf5 are comparable, as v3 has shown.

Even I who is not the most able observer can tell you that those polycounts are not even remotely close.

Marcus is a cylindrical/thick beast. The killzone models have a more humanlike form.

Dude, trying to lecture a professional 3D artist on polygon counts is a quite futile undertaking and is the sure road to defeat.

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

vf5 fighter

The edges in vf5 are comparable, as v3 has shown.

Marcus is a cylindrical/thick beast. The killzone models have a more humanlike form.

Kill zone 2 doesn't look like it has got 50k or not even close to that and its very unlikely for an fps to have a poly count that's close to a good fighting game, it probably uses something to help smooth things a little.

That 10500 Marcus Fenix is in game right? I know that many cut scenes use a considerably higher polygon count for the character models

 

[Neb]

This is a model from HL2 (Cinematic mod) with about ~50K polygons. Remove teh cap, boots and sunglasses and it is going down to 40k.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/HL2character40Kpolys.jpg

Really stands out.

Kill zone 2 doesn't look like it has got 50k or not even close to that and its very unlikely for an fps to have a poly count that's close to a good fighting game, it probably uses something to help smooth things a little.

There was a promo shot in large size which was far better for seeing the whole body upclose. But the arms, head top, fingers etc tells something. Cant find it though in the huge KZ2 thread.

That 10500 Marcus Fenix is in game right? I know that many cut scenes use a considerably higher polygon count for the character models

Yeah I think I heared something about 15K for cut-scenes.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

That 10500 Marcus Fenix is in game right? I know that many cut scenes use a considerably higher polygon count for the character models

I'm quite sure it's the model used in the cinematics as well. The only change seems to be significantly higher resolution textures.

15K is probably Marcus + main weapon + secondary weapon + pistol. You could say that it's the entire on-screen character, as you never really see him without weapons.

 

[....]

Even I who is not the most able observer can tell you that those polycounts are not even remotely close.

I see quite obvious polygonal angles on the shoulder, around the neck or trapezius muscle, in the fingers, around the upper arm. Blockyness on a character with almost no gear.

The killzone models probably take into account the gun, ammo, and gear things into account. And those gun nozzles are quite round, as are the circular elements in the enemies masks, that roundness requires more polygons.

Dude, trying to lecture a professional 3D artist on polygon counts is a quite futile undertaking and is the sure road to defeat.

argumentum ad verecundiam

 

[V3]

This is a model from HL2 (Cinematic mod) with about ~50K polygons. Remove teh cap, boots and sunglasses and it is going down to 40k.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/HL2character40Kpolys.jpg

Really stands out.

It really stands out if you have even distribution of the poly budget.

That model didn't have elaborate hair though. Hair can be expensive, that's why bald space marines are so popular these days or less elaborate hairstyle. VF5 characters have to meet the 40k budget with all the attachments. Attachments add up poly rather quickly.

 

[StefanS]

argumentum ad verecundiam

To call that appeal to authority you'd have needed to actually bring something to the table instead of some random troll. You know, like for example a fleshed out argument or an opinion, for a change. A more muscular body doesn't necessarily mean less polygons.

 

[....]

To call that appeal to authority you'd have needed to actually bring something to the table instead of some random troll. You know, like for example a fleshed out argument or an opinion, for a change. A more muscular body doesn't necessarily mean less polygons.

The picture was the argument!
Besides the guy has barely defined muscles, this isn't like some of the guys in the latest tekken which sport real musculatures.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Your argument was that KZ2 characters are built from more polygons then Marcus in Gears, because he's a bulky space marine. Now I can't really accept it as a professional comment to the discussion...

 

[....]

Your argument was that KZ2 characters are built from more polygons then Marcus in Gears, because he's a bulky space marine. Now I can't really accept it as a professional comment to the discussion...

The argument was that since most gears models are very thick or bulky they can easily get away with less polygons than a game with models that have more form-fitting clothing.