"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

well, if you take a good look at some of the pics from the original game (the ones in real time that is.) you'll probably make the connection.

(it's better that you have a copy of the game to inspect at your disposal)

still, Here are some examples that i picked from online,

example 1
example 2
example 3
example 4
example 5
example 6

I take it the art design is what people might be mistaking with the posiblities. with skilled artis and bugdgets to work with you can still make something creative. though why the engine choked so badly on these rather low figures durring close ups just baffles me. and the fact that these following characters


Dajh
Jihl Nabaat
Serah
Amodar
Cid Raines
Galenth Dysley
Rygdea
Yaag Rosch

none of their cut scenes that they appeared in were real time, and not only that but none of the flash backs in the entire game were either. makes me wonder if the engine it's self was really capable of much. however might i say that the game did have good lighting (though not all the time but still.)

If there are higher LODs of the models they're to be found in the cutscenes that are recorded. (or pre-rendered stuff.)
 
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They were pretty much all real-time in FFXIII-2, though (and they looked great). Besides, pre-recorded cut-scenes are probably more common right now than engine driven ones anyway.
 
Sigfried1977 said:
They were pretty much all real-time in FFXIII-2, though (and they looked great). Besides, pre-recorded cut-scenes are probably more common right now than engine driven ones anyway.
Click to expand...

true, graphically FFXIII-2 smashed the first game just by getting the content to run off the engine. and In final fantasy's case it's not uncommon to see hrs of it anyways.

But for this particular generation, the usage of pre rendered content kinda took the flavor away from the experience. I'm glad that consoles have accepted HD media but they have power as well to be used. in comparison to likes of DMC4 which managed to pull off insane animations and allowed gamers to fiddle with the camera. (as a token from being in game.)

everything DMC4 pulled off with animations and characters is nothing too far from the norm with SquareEnix's typical CGI.

this particular generation was a mixed bag; Though ultimately a generation spent on adjusting to HD besides utilizing the hardware involved. for this upcoming generation i would look to various tessellation techniques to bring down some of that pre rendered usage. the luminous engine supports tessellation as used on the hair of their characters in the tech demo. so hopefully they'll pull forward with that engine for the next generation.
 
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COPS N RAPPERS said:
I take it the art design is what people might be mistaking with the posiblities. with skilled artis and bugdgets to work with you can still make something creative. though why the engine choked so badly on these rather low figures durring close ups just baffles me. and the fact that these following characters
Click to expand...

Well, the X360 version was a quicky port...
 
I.S.T. said:
Well, the X360 version was a quicky port...
Click to expand...

Naturally.

Also on that particular comment it was also towards XIII-2 for both console versions a like and the engine it's self. the performance was just too slow, and with the latest FF XIII-3 trailer it's playing just as bad.... even though the engine's been worked on for nearly 6 years.

If Tetsuya Nomura wants his action to emulate that of his Cg he's been pushing nearly a decade, 60 fps for the battles should have been their target. but like i said in my other comment this generation was spent adjusting their engines and to HD.
 
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COPS N RAPPERS said:
well, if you take a good look at some of the pics from the original game (the ones in real time that is.) you'll probably make the connection.

(it's better that you have a copy of the game to inspect at your disposal)

still, Here are some examples that i picked from online,

example 1
example 2
example 3
example 4
example 5
example 6

I take it the art design is what people might be mistaking with the posiblities. with skilled artis and bugdgets to work with you can still make something creative. though why the engine choked so badly on these rather low figures durring close ups just baffles me. and the fact that these following characters


Dajh
Jihl Nabaat
Serah
Amodar
Cid Raines
Galenth Dysley
Rygdea
Yaag Rosch

none of their cut scenes that they appeared in were real time, and not only that but none of the flash backs in the entire game were either. makes me wonder if the engine it's self was really capable of much. however might i say that the game did have good lighting (though not all the time but still.)

If there are higher LODs of the models they're to be found in the cutscenes that are recorded. (or pre-rendered stuff.)
Click to expand...

This information about FFXIII is interesting. I thought it push the consoles alot more than what it really did.
 
lwill said:
This information about FFXIII is interesting. I thought it push the consoles a lot more than what it really did.
Click to expand...

It "Probably" pushed the hardware for the lighting, That particular FF series uses a lot of bloom effects. Still, In the likes of DMC4's MT2.0 engine it pushed a considerable amount of geometry detail in game play; and even more so for the cut scenes. (which were all realtime.)

With that being said, i would say the best Japanese game engine of this generation would be a tie between the MT2.0 and Platinum engine. (just on the basis of DMC4, RE5 and 6, and Bayonetta.) but it's hard to say because neither of these particular engines (including FFXIII's) has had good luck with a nearly identical experience on both platforms.

In my Opinion the best overall multiplatform engine of this gen so far is Far cry 3's. that's just about the best you can hope to see in multiplats with these consoles being as old as they are. However The new Tombraider, Metal Gear solid: ground zeroes, and Crysis 3 are still ones not to over look before the gen is up.

For exclusives you have Uncharted and now Halo 4, with halo 4 in particular using some stellar lighting and animations that have yet to be seen in a lot FPSs of this Gen.

For the Best Overall 60 fps game engine of this entire generation, goes to the extremely rare RAGE with it's Id Tech 5 engine. "Rage", a game that just boggles the mind on how it came to be in an age when most games suffer below 30 fps on average. (though it is not to say the reasons of texture streaming and scalable resolution wasn't these deciding factors that played a major roll.)

------------------------------------
More Polygon numbers for assorted Games.

Xcom Enemy Unknown - Game Designer Sid Meier 18,684 polygons
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 - Jin Kazama 19,272 polygons
Devil May Cry 4 - Credo (Angel, gameplay/cutscene) 19,598 polygons
Devil May Cry 4 - Credo (cutscene) 22,344 polygons
Devil May Cry 4 - Agnus (cutscene) 23,915 polygons
Devil May Cry 4 - Gloria (cutscene) 26,940 polygons
Devil May Cry 4 - Sanctus (Diabolica, gameplay/cutscene) 30,210 polygons
Devil May Cry 4 - Trish (cutscene) 31,340 polygons
Dead or Alive 5 - Ryu Hayabusa 30,613 polygons



mostly right now you'll see me posting numbers on games I've already covered, if that's ok with everyone. I'm just updating the thread with bits of info till i find more models of newer titles. other than that, Iv'e just about nailed most of the big titles of this gen so till next time!! :smile2:
 
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Final Fantasy Xiii-3

Lightning, possible Increase of polygons in final build?

Trailer build of Lightning
kajmeh.jpg


Screen shot build of Lightning
2cp6mgh.jpg


new character, high in polys too.
http://gamersyde.com/pop_images_lightning_returns_final_fantasy_xiii-21230-16.html
http://gamersyde.com/pop_images_lightning_returns_final_fantasy_xiii-21230-17.html

will follow closely on this discovery, it still might not show up in the final build though.
 
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I was wondering if we've ever seen any counts for Dead Rising 2 or the pseudo sequel Off the Record? I'm curious to find out how it compares to the first game which had a rather high poly count at it's peak.
 
for heavenly sword the only model i was able to obtain was Nariko, (which i think was taken from the demo.)

for perfect dark zero nothing... not yet anyways, there was a request for it a while back. i'll probably ask for an update on it.


Karamazov said:
any chance of getting silent hill 3 douglas numbers ?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pt4zJR4FbqI/ThFqIiLK4hI/AAAAAAAAGKc/4v_ZU_NzmSI/s1600/Douglas+Cartland.jpg

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/121/0/8/silent_hill_3_douglas_by_parrafahell-d3fdeob.jpg
Click to expand...

for silent hill 3 the only model i keep picking up is heather, and here she is -

Silent hill 3 - Heather 5,731 polygons

At the most i would say Douglas looks to be maybe double that. (my best guess.) didn't think his model would be so hard to find. i could place a request for it and see if it turns up with anything.
 
Karamazov said:
Ok thanks !
Click to expand...

you got it.:smile2:

Viperzerofsx said:
http://books.google.com/books?id=S7...Q#v=onepage&q=60000 polygon character&f=false

page 55 Conflict Vietnam PS2

main characters 2200

NPC 1900

cut scene 60000
Click to expand...


Very interesting indeed! thanks for sharing.
did they have any of the scenes that rendered the 60k characters in real time? if so i'm very surprised.
-------------------

I made a little comparison on Ninja theory's and Capcom's DMC4 Dante. I call it -

Cultures Collide : Dante Vs. The World
[controlled lighting was used to bring out the textures.]
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3

Besides the age differences in both characters; the face of NT's Dante shows a slimmer difference with bump mapping being the usual suspect of the extra creases. Beyond that there's nothing wrong with the look of Ninja Theory's Dante. plus gamers will be able to play as classic Dante. (you have to pay but still.)

The Nature Of The Old Legend

Attitude wise there's actually little that setts these two personas apart. with the only major thing is that he now swears and is a bit immature at times. other than the use of lots of one liners, neither are concerned with the theory of relativity. that being said they both share some similarities on IQ and content.

Innuendo content [edited of course]
DMC4
DmC

My two cents on that.

-------------------

Polygon numbers on Devil May cry 4

Devil May Cry 4 - Dante (cutscene) 23,827 polygons
 
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So looking towards next gen, will we see a 6x increase in character poly counts (60k to 120k per) to keep with the hardware boost or are those levels not needed and poly's would be better distributed as say a 2x detail jump and 3x more characters.

Also, how about tessellation? Will it actually get used next gen or continue to be relegated to a rarity? And how would it be implemented? Whole scene tessellation or just mesh patches and/or displacement maps? Is there a possibility for secret sauce here to make its console implementation relevant? How about as scaling of assets between handhelds, consoles, and PC's?

Then there's hybrid environments, lots of possibilities here. Could a tessellation unit be used for voxel style marching cubes/LOD or is that another secret sauce item?

Lots of questions and lots of possibilities.............
 
Depends on the hardware really, I will say that this next up coming gen (as unpredictable as it has been.) will still narrow both Sony and MS's hardware down to the usual factors that makes a "console" a "console". (be it size, power, temperature and also costs.)

I can say with confidence that the average poly count of last gen was 5-10k, and this gen was 15-20k (with few titles going past that.) next gen could be the same numbers but with tessellation used. once tessellation is used in future titles they can go up there in the numbers and fluctuate.

More than the statistics of the next generation i'd be more interested with the content they show. from there we could pretty much perceive with what direction they've taken.
 
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