"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

[Shifty Geezer]

8K TV?! That's wasteful. 19,200 pixels is all you need.

 

[EsppiraK]

Doricatch - FunCargo (Toyota Doricatch series for Dreamcast)

One of the possible Car configurations - 39.576 polygons.

 

[Sonicfan]

What's the framerate? Is it as detailed as that mode in forza that let's you look at the engines and such

 

[Karamazov]

In forza 4 on xbox 360 in the forzavista mode the cars had up to 500 000 polygons, so 10x as much.

 

[EsppiraK]

What's the framerate? Is it as detailed as that mode in forza that let's you look at the engines and such

30 fps

 

[Sonicfan]

In forza 4 on xbox 360 in the forzavista mode the cars had up to 500 000 polygons, so 10x as much.

Oh no, that's not what I meant. I was seeing if the engine, interior, etc was modeled, and if it was interactive, basically.

 

[EsppiraK]

Oh no, that's not what I meant. I was seeing if the engine, interior, etc was modeled, and if it was interactive, basically.

Yes the interior is modeled.

 

[Sonicfan]

View attachment 9403

Yes the interior is modeled.

It would be so cool if you could interact with it all. No engine though, I see.

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Doricatch - FunCargo (Toyota Doricatch series for Dreamcast)

One of the possible Car configurations - 39.576 polygons.

Haven't tried it yet. What's the model format on disc? Is it converted from ninja?

 

[EsppiraK]

Unlike the Lancruiser one this has plain Ninja files

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Unlike the Lancruiser one this has plain Ninja files

I guess they like doing cars. The toyota supra from the very rare sh4 demo disc for dc is 41,000 triangles. with like 2 mb of textures. impressive considering it was a somewhat interactive demo at 60 fps.

Sh4 tech demo disc- dreamcast

toyota supra -41,702 triangles

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Cbnj reversed the code veronica format and released the room models. They are actually much lower than i though but super well modeled and textured. Heres a few examples of the more dense ones.

outside mansion : 9343 tris

inside mansion : 6960 tris

first room/jail: 5502 tris

jeep room: 5645 tris

alexia boss room :6151 tris

cliff : 11102 tris

 

[Sonicfan]

Cbnj reversed the code veronica format and released the room models. They are actually much lower than i though but super well modeled and textured. Heres a few examples of the more dense ones.

outside mansion : 9343 tris

inside mansion : 6960 tris

first room/jail: 5502 tris

jeep room: 5645 tris

alexia boss room :6151 tris

cliff : 11102 tris

That's wild! I wonder what the max poly count is when there are multiple models in the rooms, etc. Seems like they were very conservative on this game! Imagine if they made a sequal and really pushed the console!

 

[Cloofoofoo]

That's wild! I wonder what the max poly count is when there are multiple models in the rooms, etc. Seems like they were very conservative on this game! Imagine if they made a sequal and really pushed the console!

this one pushed the console though. It had a lot of light sources( was mentioned during it's development.) That's very heavy since it's done on the CPU , probably why it's " conservative" . The guy who revered engineered the format there's actually aot of things going on in the background( like a lot of skeletons/bones).

 

[Sonicfan]

this one pushed the console though. It had a lot of light sources( was mentioned during it's development.) That's very heavy since it's done on the CPU , probably why it's " conservative" . The guy who revered engineered the format there's actually aot of things going on in the background( like a lot of skeletons/bones).

I wasn't saying it didn't push the console, was just saying it didn't max it out, haha. Better tools, more knowledge of the hardware, better art direction, etc all would definitely get more out of it.

 

[xaeroxcore]

Thanks for bringing back this thread, as usual!!

@Cloofoofoo is right about Code Verónica pushes already DC and it´s an example of good optimization, with highly detailed enviroment with relatively low polycounts. But we gotta keep in mind RE CV was developed since 98, even before DC Japanese launch date, so it was made still with 32 bit era logic and probably tools. That´s why we still have circle shadows for Characters or tank controls, even more limited in action than RE 3. Probably with more time, I + D, they could made it look even better, dunno if RE Outbreak similar complexity? But now that the game can be modded, may be community could answer this....

 

[xaeroxcore]

By the way, i was testing PSP´s Soul Calibur Broken Destinty on PS5, vía PS Plus ExtraClassics...And man! This game is not only on DC graphical realm....Actual Dreamcast Soul Calibur looks WAY better, specially on the hair representations, metal reflections on the swords and lotta aspects....Hope someday community finds a way to port PSP games to DC properly...Hey,at least it happened once, with 4X4 Jam...

 

[Nesh]

By the way, i was testing PSP´s Soul Calibur Broken Destinty on PS5, vía PS Plus ExtraClassics...And man! This game is not only on DC graphical realm....Actual Dreamcast Soul Calibur looks WAY better, specially on the hair representations, metal reflections on the swords and lotta aspects....Hope someday community finds a way to port PSP games to DC properly...Hey,at least it happened once, with 4X4 Jam...

It certainly would have looked ugly AF if we saw it running on TV size

 

[Cloofoofoo]

Thanks for bringing back this thread, as usual!!

@Cloofoofoo is right about Code Verónica pushes already DC and it´s an example of good optimization, with highly detailed enviroment with relatively low polycounts. But we gotta keep in mind RE CV was developed since 98, even before DC Japanese launch date, so it was made still with 32 bit era logic and probably tools. That´s why we still have circle shadows for Characters or tank controls, even more limited in action than RE 3. Probably with more time, I + D, they could made it look even better, dunno if RE Outbreak similar complexity? But now that the game can be modded, may be community could answer this....

And so was metal gear solid 2( being developed since 98 and look at the difference I mean). We cant always be too wishful. Code Veronica seems to hammer the Dc in it's weakest areas , multiple light sources and if the person who reversed the format is right alot of animated bones. So basically hits the cpu hard limiting the polygon density.

The person who reversed it already mentioned it's actually very easy to negatively affect performance since the game is already at heavy load.

There is limited memory to work whit and the game tends to suffer if any of this aspects gets overwhelmed. As much than code veronica can look simple at first glance every animated model is in reality 2 models in one, every char/enemy have 2 skeletons, 2 poligonal shapes and 2 sets of vertex tables, thats why the number of enemies looks limited in game, in a room whit 4 enemies there is actually 8 enemies plus the player this equals to 10 animated models in screen at same time, plus all the rooms models/polys/vertex tables and textures for all of this is a heavy load, thats why i choosed the simpler naomi zombie models to be the ones to use.
Thats also the reason why the cutscene rooms in code veronica are separate files from playable rooms and the game dont suffer from slowdowns, texture glitches or freeze ups.

 

[Cloofoofoo]

By the way, i was testing PSP´s Soul Calibur Broken Destinty on PS5, vía PS Plus ExtraClassics...And man! This game is not only on DC graphical realm....Actual Dreamcast Soul Calibur looks WAY better, specially on the hair representations, metal reflections on the swords and lotta aspects....Hope someday community finds a way to port PSP games to DC properly...Hey,at least it happened once, with 4X4 Jam...

Well soul calibur seems to have better textures and the resolution difference helps I guess. Broken destiny does that more scene complexity but it's nothing out of this world though.