Xbox the same price as GC in UK!

Johnny Awesome said:
The Canadian education system is only average. By German or Japanese standards it's a joke. It's on par with the American system (better in some areas and worse in others).
How do you figure? Are you talking about how it's basically completely free for Germans to go to university?

Aside from that my friend (who went up through Grade 9 in Germany) said he was surprised how similar the two schooling systems were aside from the trivial stuff like what high school is, etc.
 
There's more to Canadian nationalism than American bashing: Tim Horton's coffee and donuts, hockey, and bashing the federal government for doing nothing.

Get with the program people. :LOL:
 
I could never understand people who hate the country they live in, yet they won't move away from it. Honestly Johnny, if you like USA that much (it's OK I don't care either way) why don't you just move and live there? It's not like it's that difficult for Canadian citizens to do that, and I know several who did it (found better job, etc)
 
The Canadian education system is only average. By German or Japanese standards it's a joke. It's on par with the American system (better in some areas and worse in others).

Nope. My two best friends at UWaterloo came from Germany (Munster and Munich). The reason why he came all the way across the Atlantic is because the post-secondary system in Germany is ass (Compared to Canadas atleast).

Sure, tuition in Germany is free, but you basically have no choice in what school you attend. That is, you go to the University in your town. If you're lucky and live in Berlin or something, score. If not, you're out of luck. And on top of that, there isnt an even distribution of funding across all the schools either.

Germany also employs a streaming program where around Grade 7 or so, its basically decided if you'll be a Doctor, Engineer, Artist, etc. This is slowly being phased out, but it still permeates the majority of the German education system.

zurich
 
Listen, everyone has a story about a friend, or someone they know, and so on... The statistical evidence and test scores are the objective measure that proves my point. Forgive me if I place more weight on rigorous international education surveys and test scores than on statements about people you know.

I don't hate Canada, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize it. The only way Canada will improve is by pointing out its shortcomings. Canadians should be able to display some maturity regarding these matters.

I don't mind if other Canadians disagree with me, but to call me un-Canadian or unpatriotic because I find fault with many aspects of our society is absolutely absurd, but all too common.

PS: I do find it ironic that people are complaining about the "brain drain" in this thread and then turning around and telling me that I should move to the US. I spend 50-60 hours per week running a manufacturing company, creating Canadian jobs, and improving productivity, and plan on doing this for a long while yet...
 
Forgive me if I place more weight on rigorous international education surveys and test scores than on statements about people you know.
Unless you want to link to them, your stories aren't any better than people with "friends" stories.

Last time I checked Canada placed near the top of IB scores. Maybe it's changed? I don't know, I haven't kept up to date on it, but it shouldn't have changed too much in the past couple of years...
 
Getting back on topic...

GC AND XBOX SLUG IT OUT IN UK SALES WAR

The latest UK hardware figures show that in spite of the release of Mario Sunshine, GameCube has failed to pull clear of Microsoft's console

15:03 With Super Mario Sunshine having enjoyed its first full week on sale, GameCube has managed to stay just ahead of Xbox in unit sales, while PS2 remains untroubled in the number one slot.
GameCube sales rose to 6,104 last week, rising from 5,860 previously, with Xbox also rising to 6,083 from 5,591 units. GBA clocked in at 8,540, up from 8,145, while PS2 sales fell slightly from 22,235 to 21,225 units. The figures are for the week ending Saturday, October 12.

Though GameCube has narrowly beaten Xbox for the second week running, as Microsoft and Nintendo fight it out for runners-up spot, many expected Nintendo to pull clear following the release of its pivotal triple-AAA release, Super Mario Sunshine.

Nintendo will have been banking on its plucky plumber to spearhead a huge surge in sales but, only a week on, this has not been the case with Xbox actually narrowing the gap with both registering a weekly increase in unit sales.

Furthermore, Hitman 2 is now the official number one in the UK all-formats chart, knocking Mario Sunshine from the top spot after just one week, compounding Nintendo's concern. And with UK retailers like Argos now selling Xbox for less than £130, we've certainly got one hell of a fight on our hands this Christmas.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=81926

I thought that Xbox was much further behind the GC than that, but it seems not. Interesting to see Mario not pulling his expected weight. Again, IMO I think his place is in a bundle, not as a stand alone title. Nintendo seems to think so too ;)

I'm eager to see what the kickass Xbox bundles will do for hardware sales this Christmas! If anything, it might hinder current software sales as consumers(parents) may avoid buying additional titles since they're getting two free...

zurich
 
zurich said:
Sure, tuition in Germany is free, but you basically have no choice in what school you attend. That is, you go to the University in your town. If you're lucky and live in Berlin or something, score. If not, you're out of luck. And on top of that, there isnt an even distribution of funding across all the schools either.

Germany also employs a streaming program where around Grade 7 or so, its basically decided if you'll be a Doctor, Engineer, Artist, etc. This is slowly being phased out, but it still permeates the majority of the German education system.

This is just plain wrong. :rolleyes:
 
I thought that Xbox was much further behind the GC than that, but it seems not. Interesting to see Mario not pulling his expected weight. Again, IMO I think his place is in a bundle, not as a stand alone title. Nintendo seems to think so too ;)

zurich

Not surprised in the least. From my job at Babbages (aka Gamestop) to internet forums I did not know a single person who wanted Mario but did not already own a Gamecube.

I remember the zealots at GA predicting a 450,000 unit boost in hardware sales in the US alone when Mario launched. :LOL:

This is a momentum based industry and no single game or bundeling scheme (whether its for the Gamecube or the Xbox) is going to quadruple hardware sales by itself. Not even GTA3 did that.
 
Mr. Angry Pants said:
AHA! Hupfinsgack is the German I was thinking of! A winner is me!

Hupfinsgack isn't German, he's actually from Austria. But that's near enough to know that Zurich didn't know what he was talking about.
 
Mr. Angry Pants said:
Not surprised in the least. From my job at Babbages (aka Gamestop) to internet forums I did not know a single person who wanted Mario but did not already own a Gamecube.

Well now you can say you know one :)
 
This is a momentum based industry and no single game or bundeling scheme (whether its for the Gamecube or the Xbox) is going to quadruple hardware sales by itself.

That is very true. I always laugh when people think that this-or-that game will make ultra-surge in their favorite console sales. That just never happens. At least not anymore.

Btw, do you just lurk at GA or do you actually post there?
 
I thought that Xbox was much further behind the GC than that, but it seems not.

Take a look at this, it's for whole Europe, not just UK.

http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=13160

Global shipments of advanced games consoles will reach 41.9m units in 2002, an increase of 84 per cent over the 2001 level, according to a new report from Strategy Analytics.

Sony’s PlayStation 2 (PS2) console is expected to account for 63 per cent of sales, followed by Nintendo’s GameCube with 21 per cent and Microsoft’s XBox with 16 per cent.

The research highlights the domination of the Sony system. By the end of this year, 72 per cent of global cumulative shipments will be PS2 systems, compared to 16 per cent GameCube and 12 percent XBox.
 
Hupfinsgack isn't German, he's actually from Austria. But that's near enough to know that Zurich didn't know what he was talking about.

If you say so. From my textbook: (excuse the typos, my head was in a book)

Das deutsche Schulsystem

Germany and Switzerland have similar public school systems that are centrally administered, in Germany by each Ministry of Education and the ARts (das Kultusministerium) and by the individual Cantonal Ministries in Switzerland. The Federal Ministry of Education in Austria overseess educational policy there. These ministries initiate the educational curricula that schools will follow. This guarantees greater educational uniformity.

In Germany eighty percent of all three-to seix-year olds attend a private pre-school (der Kindergarten). Thereafter, children enter the public school system (or a private school), where they attend primary school (die Grundshule) through the fourth grade. In the third and fourth grades teachers asses each pupil's abilities and then recommend tha tthey attend die Hauptschule, die Realschule, or das Gymnasium. During the fifth and sixth grades, called die Orientierungsstufe, students can change their minds and switch toa more appropriate school. All German students are required by law to attend school at least on a part time basis through the age of 18 (die Schulpflicht).

Roughly one third of all German students are Haptschuler. They attend school through the 9th grade, and, thereafter enter the workforce as an apprentice (der Lehrling or der/die Auszubildende), continuing with part time classroom work for three more years.

Another one-third of all German students attend die Realschule. Realschuler follow a middle-track educational path with a more demanding academic program that concludes with examinations at the end of the 10th grade. An intermediate diploma (die Mittlere Reife) is awarded upon successful completion of their training. This diploma qualifies students to attend specialized training colleges (eg die Fachschule or die Fachoberschule) and recieve training in areas such as engineer, administration, and business. In Austria, this type of school does not exist.

Gymnasiasten, making up the final third of German high school students, pursue the tradional college prepatory track that continues through the 13th grade. They usually take courses in German, math, chemistry, physcis, biology, English, a second foreign language, social studies, sports, and the arts. In the 11th through 13th grades, students choose two major areas of academic specialization for their Leistungskurse and several minor subjects for their Grundkurse. Before graduating from a Gymnasium, students must have completed coursework in atleast nine subjects. The two major subjects tested in depth when students face the complrehensive exams required for graduation. With this diploma (der Abschluss), the student is qualified to attend a university or any other post-secondary educational institution, such as a Musikhochschule, Kunsthochschule, or a Fachhochschule specialiing in engineering or the sciences.

A fourth type of German school, die Gesamtschule, modeled on the complrehensive American high school, was a product of the reform movement of the 1960s. It incorporates the curricula of all three traditional German secondary schooles, giving students a broad choice of programs and courses. While hailed by some as a more progressive and democratic schools, Gesamtschulen have been criticized by others for loweing standards. They remain controversial but are growing in number.

Berufswahl und Berunfsausbildung in deutschprachigen Landern

Students in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland are trained in a profession that they willl most likely have for life. Occupational choices come early in school. During the third and fourth grades in Germany, parents and teachers decide if students will go to die Hauptschule, die Realschule, or das Gymnasium.

German businesses, government, and schools collaborate closely to provice thourough vocational and academic training for Hayptschuler, who will learn manual trades, or for Realschuler, who seek administrative poisitions. This close collaboration ensures a skilled workforce and streamlines the vocational education that the students receive.

In an on the job apprenticeship an apprentice from the Hauptschule learns his or her trade in three years. Only about one third of all apprentices get placed in their firce choice of fields, while many others must peruse careers in new fields. During this time apprentices are paid a trainee wage that increases annually. They must also attend academic classes at a school one or two days a week. There they take courses in their speciality along with courses in German, history, economics, and other subjects. The training ends when the apprentice passes an exam given by a board of teachers, employer trainers, and representatives f the approriate trade guide.

Students who are interested in technical professions or careers in buiness, administration, or civil service attend die Realschule for six years and participate in short term internships (die Praktikantenstellen). Upon passing die Mittlere Reife at the end of the 10th grade, these students may start an apprenticehsip in areas such as banking, business, or office administration or attend a technical college (die Fachschule) or a special school.

Das deutsche Universitatssystem

The German system of higher education, respected and emulated around the world, is undergoing change as more and more Gymnasium graduates try to go on to study at universities. To limit the number of students, the universities have established maximum enrollments (Numerus clausus) in many subject areas. Students interested in these subjects submit credentials to a central clearing-house, die Zentralstelle fur die Vergabe von Studentienplatzen (ZVS) in Dormund, which assesses the student's academic record and length of time spent waiting for admission, along with tests and interviews. The student then may get a 'space', that is, admission to student at a particular subject at an institution chosen by ZVS, or the student is directed to another subject area. The requirements for getting a Studienplatz by the ZVS are particularly high for subjects suc as medicine, economics, law, and computer science.

Sorry for the long post, but for anyone who read it, you're now definitive experts on Germanys school system :p

How this relates to my two friends?

Well Stephen Beckermann from Munster was pushed into Engineering at Munster UNiversity (which isnt even in the top 35 for any catagories, Politik, Mathematik, ANglistik, Biologie, Padagogik, Okonomie, and CHemie). As a result, he jumped ship to UWaterloo for Mech Eng, one of the top Engineering schools in North America.

Jenny Nachschem on the other hand was going into Dentistry in Mannheim (ranked 8th overall), but had a change of heart and wanted to study Drama (dont ask). It was kind of too late for that, so with her dual citizenship she came to Canada.

There, Österreichmeister.

zurich
 
Well, Zurich you're textbook seems to be fairly old and not very accurate. I hope you're not po'ed if I answer by line by line.

zurich said:
In Germany eighty percent of all three-to seix-year olds attend a private pre-school (der Kindergarten). Thereafter, children enter the public school system (or a private school), where they attend primary school (die Grundshule) through the fourth grade. In the third and fourth grades teachers asses each pupil's abilities and then recommend tha tthey attend die Hauptschule, die Realschule, or das Gymnasium. During the fifth and sixth grades, called die Orientierungsstufe, students can change their minds and switch to a more appropriate school.

The teacher can only issue a guide line for the parents, nothing more. The pupils are still free to decide where they want to go. The problem Austria / Germany have is a very strong increase in the gymnasia & realschulen while the numbers of enrollment in the hauptschulen decreases. There's quite a discussion about that because some argue that this deteriorates the gymnasia / realschulen.

All German students are required by law to attend school at least on a part time basis through the age of 18 (die Schulpflicht).

I am fairly sure that it is the same as in Austria. Schulpflicht ends at 15. Tough you usually have education till 18.


Gymnasiasten, making up the final third of German high school students, pursue the tradional college prepatory track that continues through the 13th grade. They usually take courses in German, math, chemistry, physcis, biology, English, a second foreign language, social studies, sports, and the arts.

Yes, there's virtually no specialization till 13th grade, although there're special gymnasia (e.g.: music gymnasia etc.). BTW, don't forget Latin. :LOL:

a Fachhochschule specialiing in engineering or the sciences.

That was pretty funny. Fachhochschulen don't pursue any scientific research, except processes for the industry. It is more like fast track education which is between abitur and university diploma. That is also resembled by its system. Fachhochschulen are quite like school, fixed schedules and you have to attend courses, etc. Quite different from University.


A fourth type of German school, die Gesamtschule, modeled on the complrehensive American high school, was a product of the reform movement of the 1960s. It incorporates the curricula of all three traditional German secondary schooles, giving students a broad choice of programs and courses. While hailed by some as a more progressive and democratic schools, Gesamtschulen have been criticized by others for loweing standards. They remain controversial but are growing in number.

Actually they're almost non-existant.

Students in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland are trained in a profession that they willl most likely have for life. Occupational choices come early in school.

Not true any more.


During the third and fourth grades in Germany, parents and teachers decide if students will go to die Hauptschule, die Realschule, or das Gymnasium
.

See above.

German businesses, government, and schools collaborate closely to provice thourough vocational and academic training for Hayptschuler, who will learn manual trades, or for Realschuler, who seek administrative poisitions. This close collaboration ensures a skilled workforce and streamlines the vocational education that the students receive.

To be exact that's not entirely true. E.g.: it is possible for Lehrling to attend a fachhochschule without a problem. Or it is even possible for everyone to go to universities if they take an admission exam (Studienzulassungsprüfung).


Das deutsche Universitatssystem

The German system of higher education, respected and emulated around the world, is undergoing change as more and more Gymnasium graduates try to go on to study at universities. To limit the number of students, the universities have established maximum enrollments (Numerus clausus) in many subject areas. Students interested in these subjects submit credentials to a central clearing-house, die Zentralstelle fur die Vergabe von Studentienplatzen (ZVS) in Dormund, which assesses the student's academic record and length of time spent waiting for admission, along with tests and interviews. The student then may get a 'space', that is, admission to student at a particular subject at an institution chosen by ZVS, or the student is directed to another subject area. The requirements for getting a Studienplatz by the ZVS are particularly high for subjects suc as medicine, economics, law, and computer science.

The thing is that you can wait until you get a place at the university you've chosen. Or you have the needed grades to go to the university you want to. Or as your friends did, go somewhere else to study.
BTW, there's no numerus clausus in Austria.

Sorry for the long post, but for anyone who read it, you're now definitive experts on Germanys school system :p

Actually I think a lot of people would have wanted to know facts like that:

In some German federal states you pay a tuition fee if take too long for your study.
In Austria there's a tuition fee since last year. ~390 $ per semester.

Those are just some facts that you have left out. But I don't blame you for it. It is just easier for me to get informed (German television, etc.)

Jenny Nachschem on the other hand was going into Dentistry in Mannheim (ranked 8th overall), but had a change of heart and wanted to study Drama (dont ask). It was kind of too late for that, so with her dual citizenship she came to Canada.

Actually I think there're deadlines in Canada, too. If she was too late, it's her fault not anybody else's. She just missed the enrollment deadline.

There, Österreichmeister.

You know, Lord supreme master Austria is sufficient. ;)


Long Post, long answer. :LOL:
 
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