Xbox the same price as GC in UK!
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Mr. Angry Pants
Newcomer
Well, what colleges are you attending? Tuition for most State colleges here in the US is--that's right--$2000 a year if you're a resident.
If you're a half decent student it is not hard to get a college education in the US. We have such a glut of college grads here that it's extremely hard to find a job even if you can wave a bachelors in an interviewer's face. That's why I'm opting for military service.
If you're a half decent student it is not hard to get a college education in the US. We have such a glut of college grads here that it's extremely hard to find a job even if you can wave a bachelors in an interviewer's face. That's why I'm opting for military service.
Steve Dave Part Deux
Newcomer
Even the mediocre university I attend runs me over $2000 a semester, and it's one of the least expensive schools in the country. My tuition just went up 40% from last year due to our corporate lacky Republican legislature who opted to remove a business equipment tax that left the state with a 300 million dollar budget shortfall and led to slashes in spending for higher education. Which propmpted the University to add surchages per credit hour onto tuition expenses.
There isn't a school in the entire USA that costs $2000 a year. ZERO, NADA. Canada has a much better system. America is run by financiers and corporate lawyers.
There isn't a school in the entire USA that costs $2000 a year. ZERO, NADA. Canada has a much better system. America is run by financiers and corporate lawyers.
Mr. Angry Pants
Newcomer
Florida State -- $2000 tuition for state residents, unless my memory is completely whacked. If it is then it's not much higher. No more than $4000.
And attending college in Canada is anything but cheap. Canadian citizens will continue to pay for their college education for the rest of their lives in the form of taxes. They have no choice unless they move out of the country altogether. Americans, on the other hand, can choose what loans to take, and can try for various grants and scholarships. I'm sure Canadians have access to such things as well, but regardless of how they finance their own education they still have to pay for everyone else's through taxes.
This is how the grand socialist machine works, my friends. Do you think your government pulls all of the money for education out of a magic hat?
And attending college in Canada is anything but cheap. Canadian citizens will continue to pay for their college education for the rest of their lives in the form of taxes. They have no choice unless they move out of the country altogether. Americans, on the other hand, can choose what loans to take, and can try for various grants and scholarships. I'm sure Canadians have access to such things as well, but regardless of how they finance their own education they still have to pay for everyone else's through taxes.
This is how the grand socialist machine works, my friends. Do you think your government pulls all of the money for education out of a magic hat?
I sort of agree with you, Mr. Angry Pants. I was born and raised in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada. 
But I think you're leaving some wholes in your argument. First, you talk about how the State universities are subsidized, then you criticize how Canada's are subsidized saying how taxpayers will be paying for it for the rest of their lives.
Both US State colleges and Canadian public universities are subsidized, it's just that Canada puts lots of money into the educational systems instead of into building up a beefy military like the US does. After all, Canada doesn't need a military when we mooch off the US, do we?
I did find one article on FSU's tuition: http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/3589840.htm
They are the third lowest in the country (behind Arizona and Nevada), but it was about average for a high-ranking public Canadian university: $2,348US/year.
But I think you're leaving some wholes in your argument. First, you talk about how the State universities are subsidized, then you criticize how Canada's are subsidized saying how taxpayers will be paying for it for the rest of their lives.
Both US State colleges and Canadian public universities are subsidized, it's just that Canada puts lots of money into the educational systems instead of into building up a beefy military like the US does. After all, Canada doesn't need a military when we mooch off the US, do we?
I did find one article on FSU's tuition: http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/3589840.htm
They are the third lowest in the country (behind Arizona and Nevada), but it was about average for a high-ranking public Canadian university: $2,348US/year.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
I hate to say it guys, but most of your "facts" about Canada are wrong.
I'm Canadian, and a thorough analysis of the situation reveals that the U.S. spends more money per capita on education, health care, and social programs than Canadians do. It's one of those made in Canada myths about Americans that float about. Americans also give more to charity than Canadians ($933 per year on average vs. $233).
When you figure in exchange, the added costs of American health care coverage and so on, the U.S. citizen is 26% better off than Canadian citizens. Canadians are falling behind.
The reason? Stagnant Canadian productivity growth over the last decade.
What is being done about it? - Nothing.
Why? Because most of us Canadians spend more time criticizing Americans for the way they were 15 years ago than doing something to catch up.
Self righteous anti-Americanism isn't going to solve the Canadian problem. The Europeans could use a little dose of reality as well.
I'm Canadian, and a thorough analysis of the situation reveals that the U.S. spends more money per capita on education, health care, and social programs than Canadians do. It's one of those made in Canada myths about Americans that float about. Americans also give more to charity than Canadians ($933 per year on average vs. $233).
When you figure in exchange, the added costs of American health care coverage and so on, the U.S. citizen is 26% better off than Canadian citizens. Canadians are falling behind.
The reason? Stagnant Canadian productivity growth over the last decade.
What is being done about it? - Nothing.
Why? Because most of us Canadians spend more time criticizing Americans for the way they were 15 years ago than doing something to catch up.
Self righteous anti-Americanism isn't going to solve the Canadian problem. The Europeans could use a little dose of reality as well.
Johnny: The costs comparison is a bit silly. The reason why they spend more on health is simply because it's a private system. Compare how much it costs for a stay in the hospital in the US for a night compared to Canada -- the US is literally many times higher in terms of cost.
And for education, I haven't seen any studies like that but I'd assume colleges like MIT and Princeton and Harvard would kinda of set the average up a bit high...wouldn't you think.
Likewise with the donation numbers -- how many billions of dollars has Bill Gates "donated"?
Averages like that are easily skewed.
And for education, I haven't seen any studies like that but I'd assume colleges like MIT and Princeton and Harvard would kinda of set the average up a bit high...wouldn't you think.
Likewise with the donation numbers -- how many billions of dollars has Bill Gates "donated"?
Averages like that are easily skewed.
Whoa, this got way off topic...
State university rates in California for the coming year:
CSUN, ~$1900 a year (2 semesters) tuition for residents
http://www.csun.edu/finaid/cost_attendance.html
UCLA, ~$4500 a year (3 quarters) tuition for residents, including $750 for health insurance
http://www.gdnet.ucla.edu/gasaa/admissions/expenses.htm
That's pretty cheap.
State university rates in California for the coming year:
CSUN, ~$1900 a year (2 semesters) tuition for residents
http://www.csun.edu/finaid/cost_attendance.html
UCLA, ~$4500 a year (3 quarters) tuition for residents, including $750 for health insurance
http://www.gdnet.ucla.edu/gasaa/admissions/expenses.htm
That's pretty cheap.
I think people are missing the point that sure, State Universities may be cheap, but Canada's top schools (Queen's, McGill, UWaterloo, UToronto) are easily on par with some of America's Ivys, while costing a fraction of that. Take UToronto's Law School for example; for years analysts have put it on par with Harvard's, and recently the University appealed to the Province (and won) to deregulate its tuition because of this. Same goes for Queen's accounting program.
Right now Canada's post-secondary education system rocks, but everyone knows that the top schools like Queen's, McGill, UWaterloo, and UToronto are going to deregulate entirely and create a "private", top-tier education system, like in the US. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Johnny,
I think those numbers are pretty skewed, especially since anyone with a decent skill set in Canada has jumped ship south for the Greenback. The infamous "i" word is whats been keeping our country running. Don't you live in Windsor? Hell, you ARE American
zurich
Right now Canada's post-secondary education system rocks, but everyone knows that the top schools like Queen's, McGill, UWaterloo, and UToronto are going to deregulate entirely and create a "private", top-tier education system, like in the US. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Johnny,
I think those numbers are pretty skewed, especially since anyone with a decent skill set in Canada has jumped ship south for the Greenback. The infamous "i" word is whats been keeping our country running. Don't you live in Windsor? Hell, you ARE American
zurich
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
The refusal of most Canadians to accept the facts - that the Americans are ahead of us in practically all areas, is the reason why we are sleepwalking towards irrelevance.
It's funny that your rebutals revolve around disbelieving the facts I've presented. I probably shouldn't have bothered trying to make these political points here anyway.
PS: Windsor IS very close to the US, which is probably why some of us down here aren't smoking the same delusion that people in Toronto are, where anti-American bigotry is cheered and Canadian arrogance is at its worst.
It's funny that your rebutals revolve around disbelieving the facts I've presented. I probably shouldn't have bothered trying to make these political points here anyway.
PS: Windsor IS very close to the US, which is probably why some of us down here aren't smoking the same delusion that people in Toronto are, where anti-American bigotry is cheered and Canadian arrogance is at its worst.
Johnny,
I've seen the numbers. Hell, my entire Econ class is an American drum banging seminar.
However, Canada is in a unique situation. The one area where we hands down excel at is worker knowledge base, due to our excellent post secondary education system. Now, the productivity problems are simple; brain drain. You've read about it in the National Post ad nauseum - all our grads are going south. What is our Government doing about it? Widening the immigration gates even further for people to take thier place. Our chartered banks are going mental trying to lure would-be entrepreneurs to try and keep our workers here, but who knows if thats going to work.
Its an unfortunate reality that students (from all over the world) come to our schools and receive an excellent education for bargain prices, then go back to whence they came, thus enriching their own country. I've been very, very, very irritated by this for some time.
There's no doubt that Canada is on a decline, but its not nearly at the point of ruin yet (isnt the NP saying our Economy is running circles around the USs atm?I). Rather, all the signs for ruin are clearly there, its only a matter of time. Hopefully the Paul Martin will fix all
zurich
ps: 'scuse me if I live in the UNs Greatest City in the World!
I've seen the numbers. Hell, my entire Econ class is an American drum banging seminar.
However, Canada is in a unique situation. The one area where we hands down excel at is worker knowledge base, due to our excellent post secondary education system. Now, the productivity problems are simple; brain drain. You've read about it in the National Post ad nauseum - all our grads are going south. What is our Government doing about it? Widening the immigration gates even further for people to take thier place. Our chartered banks are going mental trying to lure would-be entrepreneurs to try and keep our workers here, but who knows if thats going to work.
Its an unfortunate reality that students (from all over the world) come to our schools and receive an excellent education for bargain prices, then go back to whence they came, thus enriching their own country. I've been very, very, very irritated by this for some time.
There's no doubt that Canada is on a decline, but its not nearly at the point of ruin yet (isnt the NP saying our Economy is running circles around the USs atm?I). Rather, all the signs for ruin are clearly there, its only a matter of time. Hopefully the Paul Martin will fix all
zurich
ps: 'scuse me if I live in the UNs Greatest City in the World!
Steve Dave Part Deux
Newcomer
I stand corrected, but I'm not sure that it's reasonable to account for residency since we're talking about the population at large. Not suprising that these schools are in California, though.
Mr. Angry Pants
Newcomer
Glonk said:I sort of agree with you, Mr. Angry Pants. I was born and raised in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada.
But I think you're leaving some wholes in your argument. First, you talk about how the State universities are subsidized, then you criticize how Canada's are subsidized saying how taxpayers will be paying for it for the rest of their lives.
Yowch! That completely slipped my mind. Good point. Subsidizing education is quite possibly the single biggest problem facing a majority of the states, since the Federal government won't touch it with a twelve foot pole.
IMHO, the American public school system is an 18 car pile up of inept managment and a host of other problems, but that's something for another thread in a different forum.
(as if we haven't gone way out on a tangent already )As John pointed out, while Americans typically never associate ourselves with socialism our government pumps hundreds of billions of dollars into social programs. The only major difference between our two countries in that regard is Universal Healthcare, or lack there of. Which is a good thing, because it's pile-driving Japan into bankruptcy, and it'll likely do the same to Canada in the next couple of decades as the number of elderly people grows.
As for the way Canadians view Americans... As John also pointed out, I wish you all would stop quoting figures from UN reports over a decade old. Things change.
I agree. Canada's nationalizm isn't so much nationalizm as it is "we're not Americans".
Too many Canadians get caught up in doing something just because the US isn't, or develop an inferiority complex about it.
One thing Canada does better, IMO, is education.
One thing Canada doesn't do better (I'll probably be slammed for this by Canadians) is the healthcare.
I just waited about 2 hours at a stupid clinic for a blood test this week, and when I lived in California they just DID the thing when I got there.
Too many Canadians get caught up in doing something just because the US isn't, or develop an inferiority complex about it.
One thing Canada does better, IMO, is education.
One thing Canada doesn't do better (I'll probably be slammed for this by Canadians) is the healthcare.
I just waited about 2 hours at a stupid clinic for a blood test this week, and when I lived in California they just DID the thing when I got there.
marconelly!
Veteran
I live in canada for just few years, but I already can tell that only the most zealous people here even care about what the US is doing or not. And I don't really see people doing something that USA isn't, whatever is that supposed to mean :\
Maybe I'm missing something, but why would number of old people grow? I mean, it's not like people will start dying less than usual all of a sudden, and it's not like average life span will increase.
I have no idea where you live, but I never had to wait more than a 10 minutes or so for any test I had to go to, and most of the time there was no waiting at all. That includes blood tests, x-ray, etc. It may be just your bad luck.
Canadian Nationalism?!?! HAHA that's funny
I don't think any citizenry puts their country down more than Canadians do! The sole exception is when it comes to the US - we like to point out how we're _not_ like the American stereotype (ie: we're Americans, but not really..)
And as for the UN rankings being a decade old, if I remember correctly Canada got #1 in 1998, 1999, and 2000, with 2001 going to Finland. The UN site is an absolute mess (their search server is down, heh), so if someone has the patience feel free to enlighten us.
zurich
I don't think any citizenry puts their country down more than Canadians do! The sole exception is when it comes to the US - we like to point out how we're _not_ like the American stereotype
(ie: we're Americans, but not really..)And as for the UN rankings being a decade old, if I remember correctly Canada got #1 in 1998, 1999, and 2000, with 2001 going to Finland. The UN site is an absolute mess (their search server is down, heh), so if someone has the patience feel free to enlighten us.
zurich
Steve Dave Part Deux
Newcomer
The government puts 10x as much money into corporate bank accounts as goes to social programs. Any social programs that are still functioning have been crippled by conservative efforts to turn every aspect of our lives into a money-making oppourtunity for themselves. Don't fool yourself pal, big-business IS the government. Who do you think drafts 90% of the legislation introduced in the HOR? Why do corporations get hundreds of millions in tax-refunds when they never paid a cent in the first place? Why are corporations protected as if they were individuals by the constitution? Why are non-citizens not protected by the constitution?
Mr. Angry Pants
Newcomer
zurich said:Canadian Nationalism?!?! HAHA that's funny
Heh, in my experience Canadians are some of the most nationalistic people I've ever met. It's just a different kind of nationalism.
For example:
American nationalism is "We're better than everyone!"
Canadian nationalism is "We're better than America!"
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
The UN is irrelevant. Quoting UN studies is ridiculous as there is often some other multi-lateralist agenda going on, usually anti-American as well.
Corporate taxes should be abolished. It's double taxation.
While the brain drain is a problem, it's not the biggest one. The innability of Canadian companies to adapt to changing technology is the number one productivity drag.
The Canadian education system is only average. By German or Japanese standards it's a joke. It's on par with the American system (better in some areas and worse in others).
The waiting time in the health care system in Canada is almost to crisis-level proportions. Forget all the anecdotal evidence, the studies prove it.
PS: Paul Martin would be a horrible Prime Minister, if the last decade is anything to go by.
Corporate taxes should be abolished. It's double taxation.
While the brain drain is a problem, it's not the biggest one. The innability of Canadian companies to adapt to changing technology is the number one productivity drag.
The Canadian education system is only average. By German or Japanese standards it's a joke. It's on par with the American system (better in some areas and worse in others).
The waiting time in the health care system in Canada is almost to crisis-level proportions. Forget all the anecdotal evidence, the studies prove it.
PS: Paul Martin would be a horrible Prime Minister, if the last decade is anything to go by.
