XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by mrcorbo, May 31, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    14,000
    Likes Received:
    3,720
    A PC is very much like what the 360 and the PS3 is. You can either buy a disk or a digital copy from Steam.
    Comparing Steam with XBone to conclude whether consumers should have adopted MS's DRM policies, is the equivalent of comparing a digital store with a platform. It makes more sense to compare Steam with XBOX Live or PSN, or PC with XBone or PS4 to understand why people didnt like XBone
     
  2. Kb-Smoker

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    1
    I think just to get you into live so they can log you in. Since you gametag is needed to work any game.

    Once you get your gamertag set up you are GTG.
     
  3. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,579
    Likes Received:
    4,799
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    Maybe a security payload or initialization of the low-level system firmware?
    It would help prevent any exploits that require getting boxed consoles that were sitting in a warehouse while security fixes are being distributed.
     
  4. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    6,488
    Likes Received:
    5,996
    Logically it should be "you can't use any online features until you register" just like the PS3, it doesn't change the feature set, and there's no reason to prevent offline disc play. I have a Kobo reader (which I hate) that forces you to register before you use the device. There's an easy hack to fake the registration. I only have non-DRM books so I wonder what's the goal to force the users to register.

    For xbone, it could be that there's no way to create a local account, maybe it's only a cached account, so the infrastructure to create it is necessarily online. If there's a GUID to be generated for this account, it would only be generated by the servers.
     
  5. dobwal

    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,955
    Likes Received:
    2,325
    You are very right it was always technically possible. But its technically possible to allow almost infinite copying from a BluRay disc. Pubs might have accepted sharing where a console offered little chance of piracy and limited used titles sales. But they might consider it untenable to allow such a model under the current structure.

    Tell me how MS could of sold the sharing feature without retooling its DRM policies. "Hey I know you are concerned about piracy and irritated by used sales. But enough of that, lets talk about how we can get even more people playing your titles without paying you a dime."
     
  6. Rangers

    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    12,791
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    That's why 10 games sharing always seemed weird/impossible to me. Like I must be missing something.

    PS3 had 5 sharing and shut it down due to abuse.
     
  7. ERP

    ERP
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,669
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Redmond, WA
    I suspect the difference is the inability to play simultaneously.
    It means a friend can try a game, but if you want to play together he has to buy it, which gives you a good chance of an up sell.
    I think people will be surprised how few purely single player experiences there will be on either platform this generation.
     
  8. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,516
    Likes Received:
    24,424
    R.I.P. library sharing.

    For this I blame those unwilling to allow the advancement of digital goods from a digital marketplace in a digital world.
     
  9. dobwal

    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,955
    Likes Received:
    2,325
    I am not sure how PS3 allowed sharing. But MS seemed to want create a circumstance where the shared library acted like one physical library with the caveat that the game purchasers always had access to their title.

    Basically sharing 2 copies amongst a group a 10 versus distributing 5 digital copies to a group of 5 (if thats how the PS3 version worked).

    MS sharing feature doesn't cater to a reality where more than two in the group of 10 wants a newly released title. Sales are front loaded for a reason and if everyone had the capacity to wait for a shared game to become regularly available then everyone would have the will power to wait for sales and practically no game would sell for $60.
     
    #1749 dobwal, Jun 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  10. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    6,488
    Likes Received:
    5,996
    Thank you for your kind words.

    We never argued against library sharing, nor anything MS wanted to offer. Their DD offer could have remained exactly the same way, while they could have offered Disc versions the way collectors wanted it (disc as key). Microsoft just had a stupid knee jerk reaction and removed everything. They are the ones you should be angry against. We simply voiced our opinion.
     
    #1750 MrFox, Jun 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  11. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,024
    Likes Received:
    2,851
    I didn't do that and have no idea how what I posted makes you think I did. Rangers believes that people are holding Steam and Sony to different standards than Microsoft. I was responding with the reasons why Steam and XBOne aren't comparable.
     
  12. eastmen

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    13,878
    Likes Received:
    4,727
    Na I say it to those who couldnt see the big picture and are stuck in the past
     
  13. Kb-Smoker

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    1
    With digital goods there is no reason why it couldnt work....

    nice edit..... :wink:
     
  14. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    14,000
    Likes Received:
    3,720
    You cant take the consumer out of the equation. If the company acts against the consumer to profit it shouldnt exist. If the company can benefit and profit farther by benefiting the consumer it does something right which is what the scenarios cover

    It does reward the publisher as the consumer has more money to dispose on games.
    But if you want the real verdict you should better come up with pretty good statistics that measure a lot of things that no one put the effort to analyze like the below:
    Many buy titles from the used game market that otherwise wouldnt have bought anyways. They just gave it a go because they happened to find them cheap
    Others buy only new games and sell their old but the ability to sell old games helps them buy even more new games. How many are they?
    Others are a combination of the above
    In addition many used games are bought when the titles have passed their prime and very few cares about them anymore or they are no longer sold. Some people want to get rid of them so they just dumb em into a used game market where someone can find a copy they cant find anymore or just bought it because it was dirt cheap and wouldnt have bought it
    Companies have the wrong measure to calculate their lost revenue too. For example QD measured how many profiles got trophies and compared to the units sold. But many households use multiple accounts but only one copy. And that not counting the above cases.

    Since you dont have such data available you cant conclude.

    If game rental and used game market was such a big issue in gaming, piracy would have destroyed the music and movie industry decades ago. But it didnt

    Yeah but we didnt talk about that scenario did we? :wink:
    Not that we dont find better offers in digital stores quite often currently ;)
     
  15. bkilian

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    3
    No they were pretty sure they weren't going to be going it alone.

    It's a question of development cost. Building this system is a large cost on the team, building it for only some of your games is not cost-effective. They still might roll it out later, but for launch it's now an eminently cuttable feature.

    The inclusion of a Kinect in every box completely explains the extra $100 value proposition.
    Dev cost again, that system is more than likely already built, and a ton of the rest of the console's features most likely rely on the connection at OOBE.

    One thing that is a side effect of this change is no longer being able to rely on the console always having the latest OS version. This means that discs will now have to ship with the console OS on board if they rely on non-shipped-at-launch features. It also increases the test cost on the developer. This was a huge pillar of the system design, and there are a ton of people scrambling now changing TCRs and redesigning the disc format.

    And one awesome thing that appears to have gone unnoticed: No more region locking.
     
  16. oramay

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    0
    The digital game sharing on PS3 was between any 5 consoles on a game by game basis. So a PS3 could be in different groups sharing different selections of games with different people. They changed the limit to 2 a year or so ago for new purchases from then on. I'm still sharing digital games like that with a friend, just the deal isn't as good as before.
     
  17. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,516
    Likes Received:
    24,424
    I hope they will eventually come around to offering the benefits of game sharing. It would have/ could have been such a nice feature. Alas.

    As to the edit... :runaway:
     
  18. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    9,734
    Likes Received:
    3,460
    Easy. The Library Sharing can work in the future applying their previous DRM policies.

    You can share games with up to 10 people, BUT you have to opt in to a policy that for that particular game -those games you don't share are unaffected-.

    In order for the game to work for others and for you, you must connect once every 24 hours, and those who can play the game must go online after 1 hour of offline play.

    Everybody is copying this feature, and people can see why. :smile:
     
  19. bkilian

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    3
    Sorry, but buying a game for $60 as opposed to $54 because it is used is not a significant barrier to entry. Also, getting $6-$10 back for your game is also not a good driver of buying new games.

    The used market, by itself, is not necessarily toxic. Gamestop's implementation of it definitely is.

    Having no used market also does not require keeping the prices high. You can follow a much healthier curve by reducing the price as demand drops, you can spur new users by having one day sales. Steam is a master at this, and they have absolutely no used market. And at launch, Steam games are not significantly cheaper than their PC DVD counterparts.
     
  20. Bagel seed

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    16
    B3D is simply ahead of the curve in willingness to adapt to new and exciting technology. The masses will come around in a few more years.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...