Xbox Live Price Hike

[oli2]

So how do you propose to word process, pay your bills, surf the web and do the other myriad of tasks a PC can perform if you're not willing to learn to operate said PC?

to put it simply YOU DON'T! owning and enjoying an fricking console does not carry a pre-requisite of of owning, managing adn running an desktop!

Em ... Quite interesting argument !

What is the percentage of the US population actually owning a desktop connected to the Web ?

What is the percentage of the US population actually owning a Xbox wired to the net ?

Last question : what is the percentage of the online gamers on Xbox that own a desktop ?

I think the things are just the other way round : owning and enjoying online gaming does not carry a pre-requisite of of owning, managing and running a Xbox.

My opinion on this was already written by someone here : there is no snipper behind your shoulder ... if you think this offer is interesting, then you should buy ! If you think it is not interesting, you simply go away ...

 

[Joe DeFuria]

What is the percentage of the US population actually owning a desktop connected to the Web ?

What percentage of them have the requisite hardware to play games, and what percentage of them actually play games?

What is the percentage of the US population actually owning a Xbox wired to the net ?

What percentage of XBox owners use their x-box to play games?

My opinion on this was already written by someone here : there is no snipper behind your shoulder ... if you think this offer is interesting, then you should buy ! If you think it is not interesting, you simply go away ...

I agree with that!

 

[LisaJoy]

lisa joy

Xbox needs just as much adjustment to a router as a PC does, it all access information the same way, PC gaming IS easier..

That's incorrect. Xbox live doesn't need any router adjustment. Just like MSN messager, Xbox uses a central server to get around needing for the game to directly know the opponents IP address and port number for communication.

This isn't somehting that is easily solved unless a developer uses gamespy, and the correct portion of the SDK However this means both the publisher and develoepr need to pay to use gamespy. Unlike Xbox live, there quite a few extra costs/headaches invovled with online gaming if you don't do everything yourself.

What do I do extra on PC? I either pick a friends name off Xfire I want to play with, or I want to go join a game myself.. I click once to open ASE, I choose a game from the list, click.. I'm in...

if thats too tough for you, I'd suggest getting that helmet adjusted before pudding time.

seriously, these arguments fall flat, but this isnt about PC gaming is better than Xbox gaming(which it is), its about paying for the same thing... developers have to pay to use gamespy, oh boo hoo, guess what... they have to pay to use XBoxlive too.

 

[Qroach]

look i'm not going to get into a huge online gaming vrs online gaming argument. I've had more then my share of working on online only games for 5 years and all the problems with how people not knowin how to setup thier computers to use those games. Some game are easy to use on the PC without any changes required. Other games take more effort and require some changes like opening ports, port forwarding (if you have more than one machine) and NAT translation.

Xbox online game are ALL easy to use, and that's the difference. They all have the same underlying interface and can't talk to each other. On the PC it's everyone for themselves. If that's too difficult to understand, I'm sure you have that helmet nearby and can find a use for it, since I certainly won't need it. Thanks for offering.

they have to pay to use XBoxlive too.

Wrong. Other then the time it costs to implement the xbxo live code, there are NO extra fees developers or publishers are required to pay if they want to include xbox live in a game. None.

 

[oli2]

What percentage of them have the requisite hardware to play games, and what percentage of them actually play games?

Certainly far more than people who have a Xbox : who said freecell, spider... ?

What percentage of XBox owners use their x-box to play games?

Funny. 8)

What i just wanted to say is that you cannot argue that it is "normal" to pay for a service you can have for free with little work on your PC (even if it is simplier or even "better").

 

[cthellis42]

I've had more then my share of working on online only games for 5 years and all the problems with how people not knowin how to setup thier computers to use those games.

Ah, but the "problems for 5 years" don't really count, do they? Just as I wouldn't talk about problems specific to Windows 95 and 98 with XP users to which it doesn't apply. The proper comparison is Live gaming versus PC gaming for the past year-and-a-bit. PC gaming... dealing with ISPs... the operating systems themselves... everything started off harder and got progressively easier over time. Plus, one can hardly fairly look at something by taking the weight of history in one area and matching it to light experience by comparison.

At this point, getting online is pretty much a breeze and playing games just as similar. You can add more complexity to the picture, but the people doing that are ones who know they can handle it fine anyway. <shrugs> It's not the same to the last micron, but it's hardly a difference anymore.

 

[Qroach]

Ah, but the "problems for 5 years" don't really count, do they?

Yes they do stil count becuase they are the same problems peoplehave today with online games. the only differenc enow is there's far more people with online firewalls/routers/hubs then before, and the majority of them don't have an idea on how to use them properly.

All I can say is go to a support forum for any online game and have a look at the stupid issues people have a problem with.

 

[PARANOiA]

I think this discussion has gotten way out of hand. Looking back to topic, the article in discussion is, as the Inq is reknowned for, sensasionalist crap. There is no price hike. Lisajoy posted the link having believed this fiction for fact. End of story.

 

[hey69]

hm almost 5 pages of discussion.
i would except that for discussions about grafixchip / cpu/ ps3 /x2 talk but this is getting out of hand..

it's just a possible price increase people, get over it. yes xbox live is easy to setup, yes PC online is free , yes i'm not typing this on an xbox live machine..

 

[jvd]

Not all online pc playing is free. Not to mention the cost of getting online in the first place.

 

[cthellis42]

Ah, but the "problems for 5 years" don't really count, do they?

Yes they do stil count becuase they are the same problems peoplehave today with online games. the only differenc enow is there's far more people with online firewalls/routers/hubs then before, and the majority of them don't have an idea on how to use them properly.

All I can say is go to a support forum for any online game and have a look at the stupid issues people have a problem with.

The same people who'll have stupid problems with Xbox Live, really. They still have to plug a machine into a router, and a router into a cablemodem... Frankly, if they can't handle the Network Connection wizard and a device whose factory standards are all they'd ever care about, I can't really see them managing anything well.

Every game I've come across in recent history goes online without a hitch. Every major game, to be sure. (Have to play around with online freeware more, sure.) Almost all of them auto-update to boot, so unless people are confused by menu buttons... I haven't had a connection issue since 2000 unless we're doing particularly strange things (which, of course, normal people wouldn't be doing). And the only excess time I spend looking up things is for mods or specialized patches (like no-CD's).

The only real problems I'll get are the ones not associated with online gaming at all, but PC gaming in general. (File corruption, GPU issues, yada yada.)

Not all online pc playing is free. Not to mention the cost of getting online in the first place.

None of which is ignored by Xbox Live currently, either. (Or any other console's online options.) MMO's still cost extra, and you still use your existing internet connection. Honestly, how was your 2nd point saying anything at all? No one has been claiming there's "no charge"--just talking about it from the point of extra charges.

 

[cthellis42]

I think this discussion has gotten way out of hand. Looking back to topic, the article in discussion is, as the Inq is reknowned for, sensasionalist crap. There is no price hike. Lisajoy posted the link having believed this fiction for fact. End of story.

It's not fiction, but a fault interpretation on the situation, which comes about in no small part because Microsoft's CS letter is incomplete. They are, in fact, moving the customer from a ~40 plan to effectively a ~60 plan, and they do not specifically say they have the option of choosing a lump-sum payment of 40 again for 12 more months of service. Since the wording makes it appear they are being specifically off a 40/year plan they already have, it would appear to many that that option is--in fact--no longer available.

As it stands, Microsoft should have written a better letter, and the Inq should have done all its homework.

 

[Qroach]

The same people who'll have stupid problems with Xbox Live, really. They still have to plug a machine into a router, and a router into a cablemodem...

Yes and that ALL they do. No connection wixzard, no need to configure things and it works with EVERY live enabled game in the exact same manner.

Frankly, if they can't handle the Network Connection wizard and a device whose factory standards are all they'd ever care about, I can't really see them managing anything well.

Right, and not everybody is a computer expert or even can understand how to get around in windows. Which is the exact point that has been made over and over again.

Every game I've come across in recent history goes online without a hitch.

Right, PC online games are notorious for working perfectly

It's not fiction, but a fault interpretation on the situation, which comes about in no small part because Microsoft's CS letter is incomplete.

It was a bloody STUPID interpretation of something that hat was clearly explained on a number of websites and xbox.com. They even told you where to change your suscription information.

They are, in fact, moving the customer from a ~40 plan to effectively a ~60 plan, and they do not specifically say they have the option of choosing a lump-sum payment of 40 again for 12 more months of service.

The fact you're still arguing this for some unknown reason is pretty lame if you ask me. They gave a number of links in teh e-mail if the user had any billing questions along with telling there they can change thier billing setting in the dashboard.

...and the Inq should have done all its homework.

Right.

 

[cthellis42]

Yes and that ALL they do. No connection wixzard, no need to configure things and it works with EVERY live enabled game in the exact same manner.

Have you honestly found a PC game in recent history that has any issues if you're on the internet? Set it up once, you're done. Set up Live, you're done. Perhaps if the person is behind a proxy server or something...

Right, and not everybody is a computer expert or even can understand how to get around in windows. Which is the exact point that has been made over and over again.

You don't have to be a computer expert on the PC side either. If you're the type to have real issues (and no teenage children) you call tech support the once to get yourself hooked up, and then you're pretty much set... until you unplug something you shouldn't or, like, delete your Windows folder. And for people that utterly bad, they're going to need a walkthrough with Xbox Live once as well, because all the clocks in their house are blinking 12:00.

Right, PC online games are notorious for working perfectly

Of late, sure. As I said, I haven't had an issue in years from anything. (At least anything that I'm not "daring" as it were--like trying to get two people over the internet to connect to someone hosting on a LAN, or weird shit like that. ) FPSes, MMORPGs, RTSes, whatever... "Getting online" never registers on the radar. Mixing activities (like trying to get Roger Wilco working and coordinating with specific people to get on a particular server) is more annoying, but just getting online and playing random games? 'tis nothing. The things standing in the way online now are server stability, keeping a solid ping, the occasional ISP issue... Things no service cures.

Not that any of this matters, as the vast, vast majority of people who are gaming online (discounting those playing Spades on their browsers) are people with enough know-how to handle things easily. It's what leads them TO playing things online.

 

[Dio]

Have you honestly found a PC game in recent history that has any issues if you're on the internet? Set it up once, you're done. Set up Live, you're done. Perhaps if the person is behind a proxy server or something...

I can't play Arranged Team games on Warcraft III unless at least one member of the team is not behind a NAT firewall.

While I might be able to open the firewall tunnels in my routers sufficiently to do it, it would probably be an all-day job and A. I can't be arsed and B. I wouldn't be able to find someone else willing to sit there all day trying to get it working.

I'm certainly not at all convinced everyone who's gaming online is a networking guru.

 

[Qroach]

Have you honestly found a PC game in recent history that has any issues if you're on the internet?

Umm, almost every PC game has some sort of issues. Like I said before go to a forum for PC gaming and you'll find a ton of people with problems using PC games online. look I did a quick search for a PC game forum and found the following.

http://www.gameheaven.nl/forum/index.php?board=7

Look at the problems people are having with PC games and strange incompatabilities.

Set it up once, you're done.

Setup xbox live once and your done. Setup all PC games individually and you're still not done. You really have this strange perception that PC games don't have problems. Do you really play many PC games?

Quincy Wrote: "Right, PC online games are notorious for working perfectly"

Of late, sure. As I said, I haven't had an issue in years from anything.

Oh please, you certainly aren't going tto convince me that online PC games don't have problems. Just becuase YOU haven't had any problems doesn't mean other people haven't. The problem wiht PC gaming is that the hardwar eis so varied that problems arise form drivers, conflicts, OS versions, you name it. THere's no chance this has improved in teh PC world as the mentality of patch after it's shipped is still being used (even when the game doesn't work out of the box).

Not that any of this matters, as the vast, vast majority of people who are gaming online (discounting those playing Spades on their browsers) are people with enough know-how to handle things easily.

Compltetely not true. You're over estimating the knowledge the average consumer has regarding such things. Which is exactly why xbox live can be used by people that don't have networking knowledge (to an extent). You set it up once and all your games work. on the PC you have to setup every game individually.




Dio,

I can't play Arranged Team games on Warcraft III unless at least one member of the team is not behind a NAT firewall.

That's exacty the type of thing you don't have to deal with on xbox live.

 

[cthellis42]

Do they exist? Sure. This is PC gaming after all, which has plenty of problems and silly shit console gaming doesn't. Is it getting way over-emphasized as a reason? Most certainly.

 

[PARANOiA]

Do they exist? Sure. This is PC gaming after all, which has plenty of problems and silly shit console gaming doesn't. Is it getting way over-emphasized as a reason? Most certainly.

Cthellis, here's a question for you.. name the last three or four PC games that have had no issues at all out of the box AND enabled online play?

The only game I know of that was perfect out of the box recently was Max Payne 2.

This is my point as to why Live is a great product.

 

[cthellis42]

Cthellis, here's a question for you.. name the last three or four PC games that have had no issues at all out of the box AND enabled online play?

All of them--demos included. Like I said before, I seriously haven't had anything that made me blink for years. (Wheel of Time was the last one that kept sucking, but that's because their online coding itself seemed to be abysmal--I could stay on a server long.) And I play just about every MMORPG to boot. (And most demos.) I've had connection problems with one of the MMORPGs in beta (It was Mimesis--no great showing) and possibly one of the lesser-known demos I ran across, but those weren't finished--or very good--projects anyway. I DO have problems online with games like MMORPGs, but that comes from the nature of the games--not any difficulties with me connection online to them. They'll have bugs, server stability issues and the like... but none of that came from my end. (And starting MMORPGs are festering piles of coding issues--you kinda have to take it as it presents itself.) I have oh-so-many more problems that come from the usual culprits in PC-dom: my video card, sound card, Windows, some random resource conflict--if I'm getting anything at all. (And most games are pretty good and give me the occasional artifacting problems, but not fatal issues. I haven't had major critical errors since my TNT card and back in the days of Quake III's launch, except for a faulty install one or twice, and problems I create for myself through experimentation. )

And getting online has amounted to "plug cable into modem," "plug modem into router," "plug router into computer" and go. (The router serves as DNS, and so long as the comptuer is set to look for a DNS server, everything pretty much synchs up immediately. And this includes people moving their laptops in and around frequently between their home networks and mine, and semi-frequent LANning.) I haven't had a game have any issues with this for ages, be it FPS (various UT's, Half-Lifing around with assorted mods, Planetside, BF1942, America's Army, and AvP2 among others), RTS (Warcraft III, the Empire Earths, Age of Wonders, the Total Wars, and even older games from all the Total Annihilations on), strategy (MoO3, Empire: RotMK, Civs, etc), space sims (not so much anymore, but I played a lot of Tachyon back in the day ), and a ton of MMORPGs (including other MMOs like Magic Online and The Sims).

No, I never really have problems. I have problems with my computer in general, and Windows most certainly, and certain things with games on occasion, but really nothing looking just at the online portion. Irregardless of how capable I am of handling problems that arise.

 

[LisaJoy]

look i'm not going to get into a huge online gaming vrs online gaming argument. I've had more then my share of working on online only games for 5 years and all the problems with how people not knowin how to setup thier computers to use those games. Some game are easy to use on the PC without any changes required. Other games take more effort and require some changes like opening ports, port forwarding (if you have more than one machine) and NAT translation.

Xbox online game are ALL easy to use, and that's the difference. They all have the same underlying interface and can't talk to each other. On the PC it's everyone for themselves. If that's too difficult to understand, I'm sure you have that helmet nearby and can find a use for it, since I certainly won't need it. Thanks for offering.

they have to pay to use XBoxlive too.

Wrong. Other then the time it costs to implement the xbxo live code, there are NO extra fees developers or publishers are required to pay if they want to include xbox live in a game. None.

yes but there is no fee to sell or make a PC game, making an Xbox game does, and its much higher than what it costs to add Gamespy support.