Xbox Live Price Hike

[Squeak]

You're paying for the place to find people to play against, the downloads (which are new courses and maps in some games), the stat tracking, tournament play, and actual prizes. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me, at least not for the cost of one game a year.

This is what some folks need to get through their thick skulls before spouting off that Xbox Live is just a P2P service. It's a hell of a lot more than that (far, far more robust). If it was just a simple P2P operation then people wouldn't be paying for it.

This is a non-issue. End of story.

No, from what I have tried it is not "far, far more robust". I wouldn't say on the contrary, but considering that people are paying for it, it’s not very stabile.
And all those extras you speak of? Well AFAIK there have only been very few of those, and some of them you had to pay, to pay for.
And the stat tracking, ranking lists, buddy service, and what not, doesn't require more investment than say, this site, per user, perhaps even less.

 

[PARANOiA]

OK a number of points here:

* In Australia when you first sign up (and I can tell you because I have it fresh in my memory from first signing up about six months ago, and also from setting up with a friend not long ago) you are given the pricing details ON SIGN UP with your starter pack. In $AU the starter pack is $90 (at least, that's what I got it for), and you're noted that "upon expiry of your twelve month subscription you will be charged $9.95 per month" etc etc. Yes, that's more than if you paid for a year at once. What kind of consumer is blind enough to complain about that? It's like people who go to pathetic "Current Affair" shows and complain because they didn't read a contract properly, and now get charged "OUTRAGEOUS" monthly fees.

* Live is the best online gaming I've had, period, and I've gamed online for a long long time. Why? Because all my friends who don't know how to port-forward their router or configure their sound card for decent microphone input can join and game with me easily. They're not HAXXORRED by leet thirteen year olds with a script they've downloaded ruining a game for everyone else in the server.

* The comment that you have to pay for additional content most of the time is either a ridiculous error from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, or a lie. In fact, I own over ten Live! games, most have additional content, and none have made me pay for it. In fact, IIRC, Mech Assault is the ONLY pay for content game. That comment looks pretty stupid now, right?

* Yes, the PC has a more diverse gaming community, with mods, downloads, user levels, the works. XBox doesn't. Easier to game online with the PC? No.

* All-Seeing Eye costs money (at least, last time I used it.)

* People here are taking The Inquirer as a TRUSTWORTHY NEWS SOURCE. Am I the only one who thinks B3D has gone a bit errr... downhill because of this fact?

* If you don't like Live! don't use it. It's pretty simple. If I'm happy to pay for the service because I think it's good value, yay to me. If you don't, yay to you. I don't think driving a car justifies the huge cost (both dollar wise and environment-wise) so I will catch the train. If you want a car, I'm not going to start a thread to complain about you. Why bother doing to same about Live!?

 

[LisaJoy]

"* All-Seeing Eye costs money (at least, last time I used it.) "

a one time payment of $10... let me put a mortgage on the house immediately.

there are free alternatives that are just as good, thats just it, you have alternatives.. Xbox needs just as much adjustment to a router as a PC does, it all access information the same way, PC gaming IS easier..

you are paying for the same service.. ASE automatically downloads game patches, content, mods.. it links you to your buddies, so again, what is this monthly fee for? what are they providing you that costs money? if the PC community can do it for free, obviously MS could have as well, but your buying into it blindly..


I have a friend with CP, he has the mentality of a 13 year old(Doctors words, in my words its more like that of a very young monkey), He has no problems gaming on his PC, he has more trouble surfing the web(when I send him an url, he pastes it into yahoo search) than he does gaming.. if he can figure it out, and your friends can;t, I would take away thier Xbox, they might try to eat the controller.

 

[cthellis42]

I would take away thier Xbox, they might try to eat the controller.

Well if it's the old one I wouldn't worry... They couldn't possibly fit it in their mouthes!

 

[PARANOiA]

"* All-Seeing Eye costs money (at least, last time I used it.) "

a one time payment of $10... let me put a mortgage on the house immediately.

there are free alternatives that are just as good, thats just it, you have alternatives.. Xbox needs just as much adjustment to a router as a PC does, it all access information the same way, PC gaming IS easier..

you are paying for the same service.. ASE automatically downloads game patches, content, mods.. it links you to your buddies, so again, what is this monthly fee for? what are they providing you that costs money? if the PC community can do it for free, obviously MS could have as well, but your buying into it blindly..


I have a friend with CP, he has the mentality of a 13 year old(Doctors words, in my words its more like that of a very young monkey), He has no problems gaming on his PC, he has more trouble surfing the web(when I send him an url, he pastes it into yahoo search) than he does gaming.. if he can figure it out, and your friends can;t, I would take away thier Xbox, they might try to eat the controller.

$10? Great! Now if only my friends used the same service.. hang on, they're using a different one.. or none at all... or their video card has a conflict with game x, which we all want to play.. hrmm.. hang on, this isn't good

So he can hook up, configure, bind, and a microphone adequetely with no worries? No hardware conflicts meaning he can't use a mic in games (as do I with a FortissimoIII)? No worries about certain drivers for certain games, some for others, etc?

You really are simplifying the issue. Insulting myself and my friends doesn't help your case. PC gaming is great - I'm not insulting it at all. Please don't get aggressive with me trying to defend something I'm not trying to attack. However, it's not great all the time, and there are many fundamental issues, particularly with the online gaming component.

Your friend, he can play PC gaming.. can he set up port forwarding for any game he owns so he can play P2P and avoid public server woes, since there are no local pubs? Because I know people who cannot, but who are also business graduates. Maybe your friend's child should pick up a text book.

Like I said, if you don't like Live!, don't use it. But I do, and it saves me time.

Thinking of it another way, I plug and play Live!, jump in a game, and jump out. No config crap, no patching or versions or waiting for queues or frustration at cheats. I save, say, 2 hours in trying to get a game working 100% (over the life of the game, including downloading and running patches, etc). I earn about $40AU/hour. Therefore, Live! saves me $80 per game in relaxation time.

 

[cthellis42]

You really are simplifying the issue.

And you're complicating the PC issue. Most games auto-update, and "getting online" with the games isn't difficult in the slightest, as most people have already done it anyway just to get online in general. I've noticed way too many people like to create more issues than area really there with the one to validate the other...

The cheating is certainly out there, but that comes with the broader experience. <shrugs> They're somewhat different forms, but I don't see any of the services as fundamentally different or notably superior.

 

[Qroach]

lisa joy

Xbox needs just as much adjustment to a router as a PC does, it all access information the same way, PC gaming IS easier..

That's incorrect. Xbox live doesn't need any router adjustment. Just like MSN messager, Xbox uses a central server to get around needing for the game to directly know the opponents IP address and port number for communication.

This isn't somehting that is easily solved unless a developer uses gamespy, and the correct portion of the SDK However this means both the publisher and develoepr need to pay to use gamespy. Unlike Xbox live, there quite a few extra costs/headaches invovled with online gaming if you don't do everything yourself.

 

[PARANOiA]

You really are simplifying the issue.

And you're complicating the PC issue. Most games auto-update, and "getting online" with the games isn't difficult in the slightest, as most people have already done it anyway just to get online in general. I've noticed way too many people like to create more issues than area really there with the one to validate the other...

The cheating is certainly out there, but that comes with the broader experience. <shrugs> They're somewhat different forms, but I don't see any of the services as fundamentally different or notably superior.

Getting online is easy. Gaming online with a group of people of varied technological skill levels isn't. I've gamed on my PC a whole heap, as I've said. UT, for example, has a great online way of doing things.

Most games, however, aren't like that. With Live!, every game has a UT-ish interface to get you where you want to be.

 

[cthellis42]

Gaming online is just as easy, pretty much--certainly joining random games. If you mean organizing a specific game of only your friends at a certain time and place... ok, you have a few other things to do, but on THAT point it's usually harder just to GET your friend all online at the same time.

 

[Guden Oden]

That's incorrect. Xbox live doesn't need any router adjustment.

So why does my router state 'new version! Xbox live compatible!' on the box? (Not exact quote, but close enough.)

This isn't somehting that is easily solved unless a developer uses gamespy, and the correct portion of the SDK However this means both the publisher and develoepr need to pay to use gamespy.

Uh, excuse me, but so far I've not found a single reason to use gamespy for anything with my router that I installed maybe 2 weeks ago. All games work just the same as they did before online.

Unlike Xbox live, there quite a few extra costs/headaches invovled with online gaming if you don't do everything yourself.

Remind me again, which costs exactly are you referring to?

 

[notAFanB]

Remind me again, which costs exactly are you referring to?

The Cost of educating yourself ot the level at which some of the more common PC headaches become bearble. The cost of maintaing your OS, the cost of learning how to plug and play.

effectively if I can't sit down, pop a disk in the machine without years training there the costs however indirect are an deterence.

 

[[maven]]

the cost of learning how to plug and play.

I really like that oxymoron.

My experience signing up to Xbox Live (gamertag: m4v3n) a week ago (in Europe):
As soon as voucher expires I'll be transferred to €6.99 / month payment or can choose to go for the €59.99 / year one. I suspect it'll be the same for the UK (other than mandatory price markups ).

 

[Qroach]

So why does my router state 'new version! Xbox live compatible!' on the box? (Not exact quote, but close enough.)

No idea why it states that, but as long as DHCP works properly you shouldn't need anything new as xbox live has it's own NAT negotiation built in. Sounds like a marketing thing IMO.

Uh, excuse me, but so far I've not found a single reason to use gamespy for anything with my router that I installed maybe 2 weeks ago. All games work just the same as they did before online.

who said you had to find a reason? YUou may not know how many PC titles actually use gamespy under the hood, and they don't require installing any gamespy client software.

Remind me again, which costs exactly are you referring to?

I'm talking the costs to implement alternatives for matchmaking and and th other features xbox live contains. Gamespy specifically, is far more epensive to support then xbox live since xbox live costs zero dollars for the developer/publisher. I thought that may be relevant information.

 

[Dio]

So why does my router state 'new version! Xbox live compatible!' on the box? (Not exact quote, but close enough.)

No idea why it states that, but as long as DHCP works properly you shouldn't need anything new as xbox live has it's own NAT negotiation built in. Sounds like a marketing thing IMO.

Probably for a reason I encountered. I had a router problem and needed a replacement that supported VPN - which anything that sticks to standards should do - but it didn't say so on the box. I go to man at desk say "It should work, can I bring it back if it doesn't" and he says "If it's not on the box, no."

So if little Johnny's mum goes up to the desk and asks "Will this work with Xbox Live?" it needs to be on the box.

 

[Qroach]

Lol, if the man at the checkout counter said "if it's not on the box", then it really doesn't sound like he knows anythign about routers.

Well that's not true. A router doesn't need VPN support for xbox live to work, as it doesn't use anythign related to that. An xbox and your PC are basically identical as far as a router is concerned.

I guess that's the difference between cheap routers and good ones. You get what you pay for. I currently have used linksys routers and they never said anyhing on the box related to "working with xbox". Xbox isn't doing anything strange as far as netowrking is concenrned.

 

[Sonic]

LisaJoy, I didn't know you were a mother. Does anyone remember if CaptainHowdy was a male or female?

So if you move to a monthly subscription it is going to cost you more in the long run, that doesn't sound all that awful. Xbox Live has proven to be a great service for me and my gaming buddies. We have little trouble when it comes to lag and there is enough players to go around to have a new experience 90% of the time. I'm sure as Xbox Live grows bigger there will be more services and features added that MS will either offer up for free, but if you have to pay a premium like some downloads then I'm not up for it.

The way I see it, I can pay monthly for a magazine that I enjoy or I can subscribe for a year for less than what it would take to buy all twelve issues within that year. I think the yearly way is better.

 

[Dio]

An xbox and your PC are basically identical as far as a router is concerned.

I know that, you know that, but Darren (the 12-year-old gamer) and too many of the guys behind the counter at retail don't.

 

[DeathKnight]

An xbox and your PC are basically identical as far as a router is concerned.

I know that, you know that, but Darren (the 12-year-old gamer) and too many of the guys behind the counter at retail don't.

Which is exactly why D-Link has a marketing thing with M$ so they can sell more of their networking hardware.

 

[Guden Oden]

The Cost of educating yourself ot the level at which some of the more common PC headaches become bearble. The cost of maintaing your OS, the cost of learning how to plug and play.

Most of those things aren't costs at all.

effectively if I can't sit down, pop a disk in the machine without years training there the costs however indirect are an deterence.

So how do you propose to word process, pay your bills, surf the web and do the other myriad of tasks a PC can perform if you're not willing to learn to operate said PC? There are no discs to pop into an XBox that will take care of those things.

The knowledge required to play games online comes for free with everything else, it's not additional on top of everything else. Once you get internet access working in your OS (and that is not particulary difficult), gaming online will work too.

Basically, if you buy an XBox to game with online because you can't handle a PC, you're plain and simply inept, and it is in no way the PCs fault for your ineptness.

 

[notAFanB]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear so,

Most of those things aren't costs at all.

nonsense, they cost time, concentration adn a shtload of patience.

So how do you propose to word process, pay your bills, surf the web and do the other myriad of tasks a PC can perform if you're not willing to learn to operate said PC?

to put it simply YOU DON'T! owning and enjoying an fricking console does not carry a pre-requisite of of owning, managing adn running an desktop!

The knowledge required to play games online comes for free with everything else, it's not additional on top of everything else. Once you get internet access working in your OS (and that is not particulary difficult), gaming online will work too.

I am glad it has went smoothly for you thus far.

Basically, if you buy an XBox to game with online because you can't handle a PC, you're plain and simply inept, and it is in no way the PCs fault for your ineptness.

I don't buy an XBOX to game online, it's an feature which is useful and should be kept minimalist as possible in terms of user interference. If there ANYTHING I would rate highly about this method of deploying online gaming it's this.