xbox 360 retailer information

[ndoogoo]

I just hope it's not going to be $300 USD = £300 x-box 360.

 

[wco81]

Yup only the high end AV receivers will have them at first but should filter down.

Only problem is, the Walmarts and other discount chains are selling cheap HDTVs for around $500 or less and those may not have DVI/HDMI.

So the receiver manufacturers may not be in a hurry to put DVI/HDMI switching on receivers under $1200 or so.

It was the same way with component video switching about 5 years ago. Only the flagship receivers which cost several thousand had them.

However, some of the Denons and Onkyos were steeply discounted after they'd been out for awhile.

 

[scooby_dooby]

You can expect DVI outputs as an add-on pack, just like components are for the XBOX right now.

And I don't see the problem with a normal DVD drive. Worst case scenario a 2-3 Disc game. 18-27Gb. That's plenty.

 

[rusty]

You can expect DVI outputs as an add-on pack, just like components are for the XBOX right now.

not if the console itself doesn't support digital output as seem to be the suggestion

 

[Fox5]

You can expect DVI outputs as an add-on pack, just like components are for the XBOX right now.

not if the console itself doesn't support digital output as seem to be the suggestion

You can always have an external convertor though.
Like the gamecube's component/RGB/Terminal-D/VGA cables, they take a digital signal and have a chip that converts the signal to whatever it necessary. I'd imagine that if digital to analog conversion is possible, then so is analog to digital.(heck, isn't that what happens if you plug a VGA cable into an LCD monitor?)

 

[rusty]

You can always have an external convertor though.
Like the gamecube's component/RGB/Terminal-D/VGA cables, they take a digital signal and have a chip that converts the signal to whatever it necessary. I'd imagine that if digital to analog conversion is possible, then so is analog to digital.(heck, isn't that what happens if you plug a VGA cable into an LCD monitor?)

but then you are still converting an analogue to a digital anyway... it's not a pure digital signal.

as far as i am aware there's little benefit to be had converting an analogue signal to digital (as you say, this is what happens when you plug a vga cable into your tft and yet people say that there is a difference when they use dvi on that tft. the only difference is where the conversion happens)

 

[Fox5]

You can always have an external convertor though.
Like the gamecube's component/RGB/Terminal-D/VGA cables, they take a digital signal and have a chip that converts the signal to whatever it necessary. I'd imagine that if digital to analog conversion is possible, then so is analog to digital.(heck, isn't that what happens if you plug a VGA cable into an LCD monitor?)

but then you are still converting an analogue to a digital anyway... it's not a pure digital signal.

as far as i am aware there's little benefit to be had converting an analogue signal to digital (as you say, this is what happens when you plug a vga cable into your tft and yet people say that there is a difference when they use dvi on that tft. the only difference is where the conversion happens)

There never is a conversion for DVI.
Internally the image is digital, they it is either output over DVI and stays digital if going to a digital monitor, or gets converted to analog if it's an analog monitor.(a CRT with DVI)
For VGA, the image is converted by the RAMDAC to analog, then outputted, and if it goes to a digital display it is converted again.

Anyhow, there is a benefit in converting analog to digital....you can use those extra ports you have on your TV.

 

[rusty]

There never is a conversion for DVI.
Internally the image is digital, they it is either output over DVI and stays digital if going to a digital monitor, or gets converted to analog if it's an analog monitor.(a CRT with DVI)
For VGA, the image is converted by the RAMDAC to analog, then outputted, and if it goes to a digital display it is converted again.

sorry i must have written it poorly or you misunderstood, i never meant to imply that DVI does involve a conversion... everything you wrote there is correct afaik

Anyhow, there is a benefit in converting analog to digital....you can use those extra ports you have on your TV.

yes quite true... i was speaking purely from an IQ standpoint, that is of course a useful detail.

 

[hey69]

I just hope it's not going to be $300 USD = £300 x-box 360.

since 300$ will be the PSP selling price in september in europe, i can believe the nextgen consoles will hit the market at 400-450 euro (thats 20% tax included)

 

[rusty]

I just hope it's not going to be $300 USD = £300 x-box 360.

since 300$ will be the PSP selling price in september in europe, i can believe the nextgen consoles will hit the market at 400-450 euro (thats 20% tax included)

well peter moore recently said this in an interview

I don't care what they do [sony]. For us, I think it shows commitment to the European gamer because they usually get shafted. It shows that we've had dev kits out to European developers for two years. The fact that the majority of our launch titles are from UK developers shows that commitment.


So will Xbox 360 launch on the same day across the world?

Will you be able to buy the console on the same day around the world? Probably not. Will it be a week or ten days later? Probably. But it definitely won't be the six months and 479 Euros it was last time.

so he is basically saying they know they shafted us last time with the whole $300=£300 thing, and aren't going to do it again.

now it's just a question of whether he lives up to his words...

if it does sell for $300 in america which would seem to be close (recent allard interview confirmed it would be around $300) then after you've featured in 17.5% VAT and a bit more money just because we're generous the console still only reaches £200.

of course i would love for them to actually be fair and sell it for £200 ($300+VAT = £193) but maybe fair treatment like that is just a pipe dream. as long as it's somewhere between £200-£250 i'll be able to convince myself to pick one up at launch.

 

[Rockster]

The initial iteration of the XBox 360's video encoder is not capable of direct digital output because it automatically scales the frame buffer (typically 720p) to the selected output mode (ie. 480p or 1080i) in the analog domain using high quality video filters. The video chip would require a significant redesign to perform high quality scaling in the digital domain. It's possible that a future version of the XBox 360 console be made capable of digital output, perhaps as an hd-dvd edition, but it will never be as simple as a cable for the launch 360's. This is the same reason they can't display 1080p, the GPU is capable, but the video output chip is not.

The reasoning behind this is simple. TV's are all over the place in terms of resolutions supported, some HD sets accept 720p but not 1080i or vice-versa. To support non-scaled output to all these screen modes would require/allow the developer to choose what screen modes are supported for each application. This is like the current XBox, where if you have a TV that supports 1080i but not 720p, then you don't have access to the majority of its' HD content. This time Microsoft is trying to ensure that regardless of what formats your television supports, you will get the best available image; and developers need to only target, test, and tune a single screen mode.

With PS3, it's likely that unless your TV supports all formats, you may not have the ability to play certain games in HD.

 

[wco81]

So the X360 produces 720p but won't output it?

Certainly most TVs are 1080i but most fixed-pixel displays in the market are closer to 720p aren't they?

EDIT: Since there's no DVI/HDMI output, guess it doesn't matter if it can't output 720p to a digital display.

 

[jvd]

IT should out put 720p or 1080i just anlog not digital. It will still put out that image and the tv can display it .



Anyway the diffrence between hdmi and dvi is that one has sound with the video correct ?

 

[Bjorn]

Anyway the diffrence between hdmi and dvi is that one has sound with the video correct ?

HDMI has sound also.

 

[jvd]

okay cool thats what i was thinking .


Hopefully in october they will have some good 27 inch tvs or 30 inch hdtvs with 720p for under 500$ with the new hook ups

 

[Rockster]

So the X360 produces 720p but won't output it?

Of course it will. It would be the preferred output mode since it doesn't require any scaling. But if your TV doesn't support 720p and only 1080i, the 360 will scale the 720p frame buffer to 1080i so you can still play the game in hi-def. If you don't have an hi-def tv, the 360 can scale the 720p frame down to 480p or 480i, which ever you require. Hopefully this makes sense.

 

[wco81]

So the X360 produces 720p but won't output it?

Of course it will. It would be the preferred output mode since it doesn't require any scaling. But if your TV doesn't support 720p and only 1080i, the 360 will scale the 720p frame buffer to 1080i so you can still play the game in hi-def. If you don't have an hi-def tv, the 360 can scale the 720p frame down to 480p or 480i, which ever you require. Hopefully this makes sense.

Okay your previous post made it sound like it would only output in 480p or 1080i:

The initial iteration of the XBox 360's video encoder is not capable of direct digital output because it automatically scales the frame buffer (typically 720p) to the selected output mode (ie. 480p or 1080i) in the analog domain using high quality video filters.

So the Dashboard should have an option to output at 720p right? Wouldn't the TV also scale whatever output to its own native resolution?

So maybe it would be best to output at 720p so there is no scaling on the X360 side. But the TV would probably take it and scale it anyways since most digital displays don't seem to be exactly 720p native. And there were only a handful of CRT HDTVs which supported 720p directly.

With digital displays, the analog signal would have to be converted to digital.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I've heard that DVI is mainly for publishers to embed copyright protection, and that there's not much difference in image quality of components.

Is this true? Has anyone actually noticed the difference with their own eyes?

 

[Fox5]

I've heard that DVI is mainly for publishers to embed copyright protection, and that there's not much difference in image quality of components.

Is this true? Has anyone actually noticed the difference with their own eyes?

Depends on the quality of the analog conversion, but assuming a very good analog conversion then the only advantage to DVI is extra information embedded into the signal.(like correct color information for instance)